Evidence for God from Science

Absolutely!! SOmehow the wimpy, milky messages in the "glitzy" emergent Churches have glossed over equipping new believers with the understanding of scriptures so important in growth in Christ.

I wonder what we would view David;s coping skills.

Reading Psalms, he was very vocal about his emotions and quite comfortable with saying to God "I'm lonely" or "THis stinks that the bad guys aren't getting what's due them". He was VERY clear with proclaiming God's mighty hand in all things at the end of his psalms. Paul was honest about the pain and frustration his thorn caused him.

We need to get rid of the notion that we are going to be free of struggle in this life.

But I also think it is clear from scripture that we need not project a forced "Stepford wives-I'm always happy and in control". God wants to hear our sorrows and frustrations and pain....but David's example shows that even this vocalization is directed toward GOd and understanding His plan and purpose.

Exactly, it is Gods plan and purpose that we look to instead of our own agenda. A sense of happiness comes from the relationship with God that trusts we are better off in His hands than trying to do it ourselves. The old question remains; "If we could really do it all on our own, we wouldn't need a Savior would we??"

zoegirl wrote:I think we need to realize that no survey can ever really address the multiple facets of "happiness"

First, Any survey would need to be extraordinarily clear concerning their definition of happiness.

Secondly, In fact, if you look at the various examples from scripture, it is clear that we are not exempt from suffering. And Paul exemplifies this; he asked for his thorn in his side removed threes times and was refused. "His grace is sufficient for me"

DOes poverty lead to happiness? poor health? I'd have to say I would not describe my emotions concerning my chronic colitis as happy. However, am I content? IN CHRIST? Absolutely!

It is rather useless to argue and bicker about whose population is happier according to surveys. (and let's face it, there are many people out there who delight in superficial means of happiness)

PErhaps we should turn the discussion to contentment and joy. For solving problems, providing grace and joy in the face of trials and tribulations?

well the only definition of happiness is if you are happy with your life or not.

Jorge wrote:

zoegirl wrote:I think we need to realize that no survey can ever really address the multiple facets of "happiness"

First, Any survey would need to be extraordinarily clear concerning their definition of happiness.

Secondly, In fact, if you look at the various examples from scripture, it is clear that we are not exempt from suffering. And Paul exemplifies this; he asked for his thorn in his side removed threes times and was refused. "His grace is sufficient for me"

DOes poverty lead to happiness? poor health? I'd have to say I would not describe my emotions concerning my chronic colitis as happy. However, am I content? IN CHRIST? Absolutely!

It is rather useless to argue and bicker about whose population is happier according to surveys. (and let's face it, there are many people out there who delight in superficial means of happiness)

PErhaps we should turn the discussion to contentment and joy. For solving problems, providing grace and joy in the face of trials and tribulations?

well the only definition of happiness is if you are happy with your life or not.

Really?

Definitions in terms of scientific measurement are quite a bit more involved.

for example .....

http://www.templeton.org/questions/happiness/

Q: What is a working definition for happiness?


A: Happiness is a hopelessly unwieldy scientific notion. The scientific question is to dissolve it into workable pieces so that it can be studied as part of the scientific field of Positive Psychology. I believe happiness dissolves into three different ideas, each of which is separately buildable and measurable. The first is the i) pleasant life (having as much positive emotion and as little negative emotion as possible), ii) the engaged life (being completely absorbed by the challenges you face at work, love, play etc. iii) the meaningful life (knowing what you highest strengths are and using them to belong to and serve something that is bigger than you are.) Once we have established these three categories we can begin to measure them scientifically.

Let's not forget that any research into a population's level of happiness invovles comparing how a group faces similar challenges. It's not really valid to say that one country's population is "happier* than another's if there factors are different. Saying person A is healthier than person B because of their philosophy becomes invalid as soon as we find out that person A has some debilating disease that person B does not have. Whereas, if we find person A and person B with similar disease and examine how their philosophy effects their level of happiness it becomes more valid.
A rich Christian versus a rich non-Christian
A poor Christian and a poor non-Christian

Any research should, as much as possible, control for socioeconomic, health, stress, factors. Then one could compare (although it would still be hard to make concrete conclusions) a person's philosophy or religion to see how this philosophy effects their "happiness".

But really, this is an incredibly slippery topic to create a valid study.

Again, Christianity does not guarantee some idealistic bubble gum, smiling lifestyle. I find it hard to believe that we would find JOb to be a smiling effervescent person. Nor would I expect a Cancer patient to simply shrug his/her shoulders and blithely say "Boy I'm happy!!" There are any number o events in a person's life that would preclude a person being "happy". And yet this does not negate the value and absolute significance of Christ in a person's life.

TO be honest, we somehow have this idea that in this life in a corrupt world happiness CAN be acheived and really this is an unrealistic goal. (And unfortunatley many Christians have fallen prey to this ridiculous notion that we can acheive this state of happiness with preachers that propagate this false teaching0 Eckardt Tolle being one of them currently) We are made incorruptible in Christ and Christ alone.

PAul speaks in scripture aboutthe "peace that transcends understanding" I think it speaks in large part to this question of happiness. The idea that a Cancer patient, while not "happy", can still experience that peace.

It's all about having the right attitude...

The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, gifted ability, or skill. It will make or break a company, a church, a home.

The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace from that day. We cannot change our past, we cannot change the fact that people will act in certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing that we can do is play on the one string that we have and this string is, Attitude. I am convinced that life is ten percent what happens to me and ninety percent how I react to it. And so it is with you....We are in charge of our Attitudes. - Charles Swindoll

They say ignorance is bliss. Karl Marx also said it was impossible to determine whether people of past times were happier or sadder.

One thing is certain, simple lives are easier. The more intelligent you are, the harder it is for you to find satisfaction in things. Also you will have a higher want of attaing more.

Extreme personalities live more intense lives, both highs and lows.

People can be brainwashed into being happier, is that such a bad thing?

Reminds me of the movie Shallow Hal where he was brain washed into liking the girls regarding of what they really looked like. He was happier.

Unforunately, in the real world we need happiness and sadness to be able to appreciate good times. If all we had was happiness how would we possible be able to appreciate it?