Evidence for God from Science

Hey FL, had you bought that bottle of Makers Mark, you would have been contributing to economy right here in Kentucky.

Loretto, Ky. is the home of MM about 3 hrs. drive from my place.

If you haven't done so already, visit their website-very nice.

Thanks for getting our stock market back up,over 9,000 today!

cslewislover wrote:Awwws . . . thanks so much for helping our economy! And I'm sure the MM would've tasted the same...This topic has made me feel so much better about our finances!

Cross.eyed wrote:Thanks for getting our stock market back up,over 9,000 today!

You are welcome, guys. Somebody had to take action!

Cross.eyed wrote:Hey FL, had you bought that bottle of Makers Mark, you would have been contributing to economy right here in Kentucky.

I did end up buying a bottle of Rebel Yell, a bourbon made in Louisville KY...but at $8.30 per bottle, it is almost 3 times cheaper than Maker's Mark ($24.40)...so my contribution to Kentucky's economy was less than I had intended. Blame that on politics!

FL

catherine wrote: ...an article warning about mammon or rather the love of it.

It is interresting catherine the way you bring this. Maybe we are in those days, or at least very close to it. The New World Order is making his way(s) and no one can do anything against it. Is Mammon the way of the New Worl Order, the opposite of the right way, or, as mentioned, the evil world ?

catherine wrote:What are your thoughts on this financial crisis?

Frankly Scarlet I think it is very weird that banks (Canadian banks as Well) where very rich a few months ago and suddenly they became so poor that the gouvernments had to backed them off... How come no one saw anything coming, at least one bank at a time ? Suddenly almost all the banks in the World are collapsing.

Cheers.

Zebulon

Hi Zebulon, thanks for your thoughts. It's an interesting time. I know we've had crisises before, (1929 for example) but I do think if this one is going to be as bad as many 'money experts' and certain Christians think, then this could lead us into many of the things that need to be in place before the tribulation ie mark of beast (could be to do with currency??- you can't buy or sell), the anti christ (whether a world ruler or a government or organisation)- many nations are coming together to sort the financial crisis out- who knows. I've been listening to some mp3 recordings of a Christian called Norm Franz - don't know if any one here has heard of him or knows anything about him? He thinks Babylon the Great is the banking system, which is based on a corrupt weights and measures principle, (the fractional reserve system I think it's called?) and obviously it's the greed, dishonesty etc that has brought about this whole mess. There's a lot of stuff on You Tube which I know you have to be careful of, as you have to sift the wacky, crazy stuff from the more credible. But apparently the dollar is going to collapse and be replaced by the Amero in the not too distant future!! We'll see.............

catherine wrote:Hi Zebulon, thanks for your thoughts. It's an interesting time.

Hi catherine, it sure is an interresting time.

catherine wrote: then this could lead us into many of the things that need to be in place before the tribulation ie mark of beast (could be to do with currency??- you can't buy or sell),

Yes like you say, and like it is said in Revelation 13, about the Beast and other things like :

If any man has ears, let him give ear. (depending of the translations, in french, one of my languages it sounds more like Let the one who as ears understand the saying)
If any man sends others into prison, into prison he will go: if any man puts to death with the sword, with the sword will he be put to death. Here is the quiet strength and the faith of the saints. To me it looks like the definition of Karma, from Asian religions, but said in other words.

It is weird because it is placed right in the middle of nowhere in the text or chapter 13. And later on :

And he had power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that words might come from the image of the beast, Funny how this look like televisions, cell phones, Iphones, computers, etc in the eye of a man fronm 2000 years ago. The image of the beast. But then is the beast you and me and all flesh represented by it? Our body is the container of our soul, isnt it?

and that he might have all those who did not give worship to the image of the beast put to death. Hummmmm. Anyone who does not have the money to buy a TV, a computer and a cell could very well be somewhere in middle of very poor countries. But this is just a thought.

catherine wrote: the anti christ (whether a world ruler or a government or organisation)-

Indeed catherine, why does it say not anti-jesus? The anti-christ is the one who whorship the materialistic, isnt it?

Thanks for your thoughts to !

Zebulon

Bytheway, catherine, what bible do you read?

and this is not so funny :

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. That is from King James Bible.

Here is wisdom. He who has knowledge let him get the number of the beast; because it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty-six. ...and this is from the Basic English Bible.

In both it says Here is wisdom. That is important because he would not have said it. Let him in King James, while He who in the other. Strange how it could sound different. Let him that hath understanding souds more like someone saying Give to the one the possibility to understand... and then Count the number while the other says Get the number.

Just my 2 cents.

Zebulon.

Bytheway number 2,

And he gives to all, small and great, the poor and those who have wealth, the free and those who are not free, a mark on their right hand or on their brows;
So that no man might be able to do trade but he who has the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Kindda weird since we buy from our right and occasionnally left hands with credit cards, bank cards, cell phones (already in Japan and countries in Europe), money transactions done with the mouses of computers. Forehead or brows? Well one can say that we have the forehead in front of our computer, in front of our cell phones and pocket PCs when we punch the transactions, and still using the hands... And we all know that the chip is near to be installed, as it is possibility.

and : Mr. Sarkozy of France invited China and India to be part (suggestion for now) of the G8 countries. 10 crowns?

And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads unholy names.

10 crowns=10 countries over 7 continents?

...for the fun of it.

Zebulon

Hi Zebulon, I have various Bible translations and tend to use the NIV version and the Amplified Bible by Zondervan. I get so confused with all the stuff in Revelation that I don't really try to understand it. The only bit I can get my head around really is the 'not being able to buy or sell' so for me that is a marker to look out for. Paper money only makes up a small percentage of 'real' money now - the rest being generated electronically, and we already have bio chips ( I recently read about some young folks in one country who had chips in their arms or hand that they used to get into night clubs and get drinks etc), so I can see 'money' disappearing. Here in the UK we've had many stories lately of chip n pin fraud and cloning etc so these cards we use are not going to last.

You mention the G8 or is it G7 now, and I always wonder that if the number goes up to 10 whether that would be to do with Revelation?? Interestingly, when you mentioned the 'image of the beast' I straight away thought of a computer screen and you then went on to say the same thing!! I think as the end time events start to unfold, we will start to see the jig saw pieces coming together and understand what the symbolism is. The fact we don't know for sure is not important if we are faithful and ready like the wise virgins.

I don't know much about Karma but it seems even the first century Jews had some idea that sins = consequences- e.g when the disciples said to Jesus about some disabled man ( I can't remember what was wrong with him, I think he was lame) - 'who sinned, him or his parents, that he has this affliction?' I think bad things befall good people and good things befall bad people and we'll all get our comeupance in the end.

catherine wrote:Hi Zebulon, I have various Bible translations and tend to use the NIV version and the Amplified Bible by Zondervan. I get so confused with all the stuff in Revelation that I don't really try to understand it.

I must admit it is the same thing to me catherine. I follow and search about the Revelation since i was 15 years old (I am now 53). But things get better and better in my comprehension of it. It makes more and more sense.

catherine wrote:The only bit I can get my head around really is the 'not being able to buy or sell' so for me that is a marker to look out for. Paper money only makes up a small percentage of 'real' money now - the rest being generated electronically,

Yup, yes indead.

catherine wrote: and we already have bio chips ( I recently read about some young folks in one country who had chips in their arms or hand that they used to get into night clubs and get drinks etc), so I can see 'money' disappearing. Here in the UK we've had many stories lately of chip n pin fraud and cloning etc so these cards we use are not going to last.

Like I was saying, as long as it goes it makes more sense. Things are placing themselves as prophetised shal we say?

catherine wrote: You mention the G8 or is it G7 now, and I always wonder that if the number goes up to 10 whether that would be to do with Revelation??

It is just speculation of my part but hey, while I speculate I get answers... from others mainly. It is G8 since last year.

catherine wrote:Interestingly, when you mentioned the 'image of the beast' I straight away thought of a computer screen and you then went on to say the same thing!! I think as the end time events start to unfold, we will start to see the jig saw pieces coming together and understand what the symbolism is. The fact we don't know for sure is not important if we are faithful and ready like the wise virgins.

Yes catherine and it seems to me that we may have a responsability towards depuzzling the whole thing.

catherine wrote:I don't know much about Karma but it seems even the first century Jews had some idea that sins = consequences- e.g when the disciples said to Jesus about some disabled man ( I can't remember what was wrong with him, I think he was lame) - 'who sinned, him or his parents, that he has this affliction?' I think bad things befall good people and good things befall bad people and we'll all get our comeupance in the end.

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Hummmm very interresting catherine, I am overwhelmed by the fact that not much people think toward a possibility of Karma-like christian fact if I may say so.

I am actually building electronic bibles of different sorts from different sources... So one can search and compare the meanings. I will come back to you on this.

Regards,

Zebulon.

HI zebulon, thanks again for your feedback and I look forward to you finalizing your electronic Bibles.

If you have time, read this article, sounds interresting and quite to the topic.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=10364

Cheers.

Zebulon.

Just read it. Very interesting and it's eerie to know Jefferson and Lincoln warned about this:

'Jefferson with this stinging comment:

"I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

A half century later Lincoln said:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country....corporations (including bankers) have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

catherine wrote:Just read it. Very interesting and it's eerie to know Jefferson and Lincoln warned about this

Be very careful before believing some quote attributed to Jefferson or Lincoln or anybody else who is famous and whose name can be misused by the unscrupulous to give credibility to a lie.

And don't be too quick to assume credibility with the website Zebulon provided a link for. On it I found that they are also calling for «an international inquiry into the September 11th «attacks»...because these obviously could not have been perpetrated by 19 Saudis with flight training [and] wielding exactos.»

If you look a little, you can find websites dedicated to proving that Apollo program never landed a single man on the moon, but that all the lunar landings were shot in the Arizona desert.

A website does not Truth make!

Another thing: a mature Christian should not equate Karma with Christianity because Karma is nonjudgemental justice*, whereas divine justice (the justice of the Bible) has a lawgiver (God,) a judge (Jesus,) and an accused (you.) The accused is standing before the Judge for the life lived, the only life you have been given to live:

Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgement (Hebrews 9:27)

FL

*Karma as nonjudgemental justice: if a bunch of hooligans beat you up and gang rape you, this is not evil. You are just working out negative Karma which you may have accumulated in some past life.

Hi Fuerstentum Liechtenstein, thanks for your warnings. I have seen the two quotes by the presidents on many sites. Are you saying they are incorrect and the presidents never said those things?? Also, I visit many sites and can see that they contain lots of dodgy things so just because something is from a 'questionable site' does not mean it is not true.

I personally don't believe in 'karma'. It isn't mentioned in the Bible and in my previous post to Zebulon, I mentioned an incident in the bible when the disciples were questioning Jesus on something that sounded rather like karma. Jesus however, corrected them in their assumptions. So sorry if I didn't make these things clear in my last posts.

There is a a danger with the internet, that with the sheer volume of information that we can be misled or deceived by false information. I try to be careful when viewing stuff. The article that Zebulon posted a link to, is not I believe, in the 'loony' category. Have you read the article yourself?

regards catherine

catherine wrote: I have seen the two quotes by the presidents on many sites. Are you saying they are incorrect and the presidents never said those things?? Also, I visit many sites and can see that they contain lots of dodgy things so just because something is from a 'questionable site' does not mean it is not true.

Thanks for the quotes of the presidents, catherine. It is in quite of the perspective we are talking about. And defenitely same thing here, I to visit many sites and can see that they contain lots of dodgy things... and I think, like you, that I am old and experienced anough to determine what is good for me.

catherine wrote:I personally don't believe in 'karma'. It isn't mentioned in the Bible

This is quite still questionnable in a sense. I am still confused about the Karma and if some sayings of Jesus are related. It still for me worth of searching. The main reason is that I have two birthmarks on my feet. They are placed on my right foot and on my left foot. On my left foot it stands right on top in the middle of it about 1,75 inches from the toes. On my right foot it is completely on the rear, back bottom leg, about 4 inches from the heel. They are almost perfectly roud shaped, the same size both of them and the same color (light brown) with a tiny darker dot right in the middle. They are the size of crucifixion nails. Since the age of fifteen I made some search and it could be that some crucifixions had been made with defferent position and various ways. Is this a sign thet I was crucified in a past life? Sure thing I have no proof of that. But no one else has any proof of the contrary also.

catherine wrote:There is a a danger with the internet, that with the sheer volume of information that we can be misled or deceived by false information. I try to be careful when viewing stuff. The article that Zebulon posted a link to, is not I believe, in the 'loony' category. Have you read the article yourself?

Right. Maybe Fuerstentum Liechtenstein missmached me a bit to quickly because of other posts of mine elsewhere. He might think I am a 9/11, Zielgfiest (?), crack or whatever he tries to match me with. Strange because if he can put a thing on me about these topics is because he knows them. I am not juging you FL so do not juge me as well.

Catherine I will send you a private message concerning a discussion on Revelation that is going on on another Christian site if you wish.

Cheers !

Victor