Evidence for God from Science

Cross.eyed wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Meh... and then there was a move in Australia for us to do the same thing [give tax dollars to murder babies in third world countries]. It really sickens me and makes me wonder at times why God even bothers with us. I'd just want to bring it all to an end now if I were Him. Who can understand the patience and grace He demonstrates?

Noone.

Like you and many others it makes me sick just to think about it.
Here in the U.S., If given the opportunity, I think the majority would vote to do away with using our tax dollars to fund abortion but thats not gonna happen anyways soon.

It is a shame when those in office disregard the will of the people even to the point of murder for their own agenda of getting reelected.

You may remember another thread where we discussed abortion and I asked the question;
How did Scott Peterson get the death penality for murder in the death of his unborn son, and yet we have a law that allows the murders of the unborn everyday to be legal???

Maybe you could enlighten me on this.

Now I feel sick.

I've been feeling sick more and more lately along with my wife over this issue.

Maybe moreso now because we have a baby and another little one due 7 months. That and perhaps we seem to be confronted more and more with this horrible issue.

Cross.eyed wrote:It is a shame when those in office disregard the will of the people even to the point of murder for their own agenda of getting reelected.

Yes, but keep in mind that we keep electing them. How many Christians voted to put the murderer in office in the first place, all because they were too worried about their pocket books?

We're to blame for those children's deaths, because we aren't willing to stand up for God's universal moral laws.

Oh, sorry . . . there I go being divisive again! Sorry . . . let me get back in the right frame of mind:

FREEDOM OF CHOICE ACT!
YES WE CAN!
FUNDING ABORTION IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES!
YES WE CAN!
ABORTION ON DEMAND!
YES WE CAN!

. . .

Jac3510 wrote:

Cross.eyed wrote:It is a shame when those in office disregard the will of the people even to the point of murder for their own agenda of getting reelected.

Yes, but keep in mind that we keep electing them. How many Christians voted to put the murderer in office in the first place, all because they were too worried about their pocket books?

We're to blame for those children's deaths, because we aren't willing to stand up for God's universal moral laws.

Oh, sorry . . . there I go being divisive again! Sorry . . . let me get back in the right frame of mind:

FREEDOM OF CHOICE ACT!
YES WE CAN!
FUNDING ABORTION IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES!
YES WE CAN!
ABORTION ON DEMAND!
YES WE CAN!

. . .

That's why I voted for Obama, because I was worried about money. You see all I can think about is money, so I voted for Obama... Plus I like murders..

I don't really care what your justification for voting for him was, Gman. The FACT is that our taxpayer dollars are now paying for abortions in third world countries. There are children who are dying now who wouldn't have if Obama had not been elected. The FACT is that he is pushing for the Freedom of Choice Act, which means children will die who would not have otherwise. Glad you can live with that.

Right... Like McCain was going to repeal Roe v Wade. I hope you can live with that not to mention we are in a war that will never end and will probably get us all killed...

Gman wrote:Right... Like McCain was going to repeal Roe v Wade. I hope you can live with that not to mention we are in a war that will never end and will probably get us all killed...

We have already seen Obama act further to extend abortion so I'm not sure what the point here really is. You may not think Obama is all that bad, but I'm with Jac on this one. A person by the name of Dan Lyons wrote:

At Nuremberg, Hitler and his henchmen were condemned by the American judges because they encouraged the killing of the unborn. ... Hitler was wrong, even though most of the men on our Supreme Court today defend what the Nazis did. If we do not stop killing infants on the premise that they are nothing unless they weigh five or six pounds, we will do what Hitler did: we will kill the handicapped, particularly when those handicapped are aged. Then we will kill the truly handicapped who are retarded: the only "angels" among us, for they have never sinned. ... Unless we stop abortion we will go further than Hitler, being "better" educated than the Austrian paperhanger. We will kill infants after they are born. We will do it scientifically, of course. ... We will call on brilliant scientists who know all about creation. ... We will ask them to tell us which child is worthy to live and which is not. We will go Hitler one better. We will commit wholesale infanticide, like pagan Rome, where even healthy infants were often put to death if they were not masculine, like their executioners. There is no doubt scientist will cooperate, as they did for Hitler. We already have many of them clamoring for the death of the elderly and the "unfit." (cited in 'Abortion: The silent holocaust' by John Powell, S.J., 37)

Not to draw parallels (maybe that isn't entirely honest), but in the same breath as talking about the quality of health care (a largely social issue I would think) we hear in a popular inaugural speech the words: "We will restore science to its rightful place..."

Abortion aside, I just hear how great Obama is all the time. This just seems to be said and assumed de facto. I recently had to hire someone, and I had to sift out applicants who fit the job and those who didn't. A lot of my judgement was based upon understanding their experience and achievements which were relevant to the position. I've heard Obama is better than McCain, better than Bush, he's brilliant and going to change the world, etc. If there ever was a superhero president, Obama seems to be considered it by many. But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

Kurieuo wrote:I've been feeling sick more and more lately along with my wife over this issue.

Maybe moreso now because we have a baby and another little one due 7 months. That and perhaps we seem to be confronted more and more with this horrible issue.

I think my wife and I can relate to that in a way...we have two grandchildren ages 24 & 8 mo.'s.
We have always despised abortion and when our babies came along, the events caused us to question the senslessness
of this practice even more.

We know God loves us all-even abortionists-but it boggles our minds how anyone could go through such a thing.

I read a report on how Planned Parenthood convinced some women this was the best thing to do,
but in the aftershock, most of the Mothers suffered depression for months and even years afterwards.

On the wonderful side,
Congrats on the forthcoming baby!!

Kurieuo wrote:But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

So far, only the ability to put a few English words together more intelligently than the last Yahoo Texan.
.
.

Cross.eyed wrote:You may remember another thread where we discussed abortion and I asked the question;
How did Scott Peterson get the death penality for murder in the death of his unborn son, and yet we have a law that allows the murders of the unborn everyday to be legal???

Maybe you could enlighten me on this.

Now I feel sick.

I thought about this too, during Scott Peterson's trial. It is very hypocritical (regarding the laws in this country) and I don't think the hypocrisy of this just slides past the abortionists.

RE Gman, I though he was being sarcastic.

Kurieuo wrote: Abortion aside, I just hear how great Obama is all the time. This just seems to be said and assumed de facto. I recently had to hire someone, and I had to sift out applicants who fit the job and those who didn't. A lot of my judgement was based upon understanding their experience and achievements which were relevant to the position. I've heard Obama is better than McCain, better than Bush, he's brilliant and going to change the world, etc. If there ever was a superhero president, Obama seems to be considered it by many. But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

I don't understand it, except people are willing to make someone their hero (or idle) because they feel they need one; and they aren't looking in the right place.

BavarianWheels wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

So far, only the ability to put a few English words together more intelligently than the last Yahoo Texan.
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and actually, there have been many who have observed that he is not as great in improv comments as when he does rehearsed speeches. Many have noted that he is awkward and easy to irritate.

BavarianWheels wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

So far, only the ability to put a few English words together more intelligently than the last Yahoo Texan.
.
.

The ability to put a few words together is a minor ability. I don't judge him by how he speeks, but I'm looking carefully at what he is going to do. Does he have the follow thru? Time will tell.

As for the last guy, I'm sure he would be pretty cool to hang out with. Then again........

Kurieuo wrote:Not to draw parallels (maybe that isn't entirely honest), but in the same breath as talking about the quality of health care (a largely social issue I would think) we hear in a popular inaugural speech the words: "We will restore science to its rightful place..."

Abortion aside, I just hear how great Obama is all the time. This just seems to be said and assumed de facto. I recently had to hire someone, and I had to sift out applicants who fit the job and those who didn't. A lot of my judgement was based upon understanding their experience and achievements which were relevant to the position. I've heard Obama is better than McCain, better than Bush, he's brilliant and going to change the world, etc. If there ever was a superhero president, Obama seems to be considered it by many. But what actual achievements does Obama have that gives people such confidence? What makes him really qualified to act as president of the US, to act in a position considered by many to be the most powerful in the world?

Kurieuo, I would agree with you that Obama flunks on many issues, mostly speaking on the abortion issue. But I'm sorry, there are other issues that are also at stake here... Namely this God awful war that we are in that is not only is killing our soldiers, but is also making us public enemy number 1 with the Arabs.. In fact, I think it is too late now to just pull out... Now, I'm for bombing Afghanistan and going after Bin Laden. But we needed to also have a sound exit plan... All you need to do is look and see what is happening to Israel. Why should we subject ourselves to what Israel is going through? 60 years of carnage? All I know is that anything is better than what McCain has to offer... He was a flip flopper (also on the abortion issue) and a pro war militant... Enough is enough...

BavarianWheels wrote: So far, only the ability to put a few English words together more intelligently than the last Yahoo Texan.
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That too....

Gman

Over 49 million unborn babies have been killed since Roe v Wade legalized abortion in January 1973. (Source: Abort73, but other sites confirm - Google abortion statistics.) Approx. 1.2 million unborn babies are killed each year, about 3,300 per day.

Compare that to how many were killed and injured in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... compare that to how many have died in all the previous American Wars combined... which is really the more important issue???

Here's a reproduction of a chart I came across in the book 'Abortion the Silent Holocaust' published in 1981:
Here's an update of the War on the Unborn as of 2009 (49+ million) - each cross representes 50,000 killed:

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Why is the war on the unborn not an important enough issue for you?