Evidence for God from Science

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Small correction here:

jlay wrote:Israel was God's CHOSEN people

That is wrong. Israel is God's chosen people; the verb tense should be present. God is not a man that He should change His mind.

I'm assuming you made an honest mistake. Carry on.

FL

Another thread for another debate. God didn't change his mind. He knew the rejection of Israel. It didn't catch Him off gaurd and he had to go with plan B. No, Israel's rejection was woven into the ultimate plan of redemption. As the scriptures state in 1 Peter 20, "He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake." Matt 22:14 says many are called, few are chosen. God makes it clear through the apostle Paul that God is no respector of persons. His covenant with the Israelites is all part of the same plan to save the world through Christ Jesus. No one comes to salvation apart from Christ. even the old testament saints who looked forward to His coming.

Do you think the 10 commands were something God thought up after the fall, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob? No, the Commands were and always will be the same. And Jesus was and always will be the fulfillment of these.

So, I'll stick with was/were. Since the birth/death/resurrection of Christ, God is no longer continuing to operate through a temple in Israel, or the nation of Israel, but through the temple that is the body of Christ, the saints whom the Holy Spirit occupies. Not saying that this doesn't include Israel.

jlay wrote: God didn't change his mind. He knew the rejection of Israel. It didn't catch Him off gaurd and he had to go with plan B. No, Israel's rejection was woven into the ultimate plan of redemption. As the scriptures state in 1 Peter 20, "He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake." Matt 22:14 says many are called, few are chosen. God makes it clear through the apostle Paul that God is no respector of persons. His covenant with the Israelites is all part of the same plan to save the world through Christ Jesus. No one comes to salvation apart from Christ. even the old testament saints who looked forward to His coming.

I have no disagreement with you in the above.

jlay wrote:Do you think the 10 commands were something God thought up after the fall, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob? No, the Commands were and always will be the same. And Jesus was and always will be the fulfillment of these.

No disagreement with you above either, although I wouldn't have worded it as you did.

jlay wrote: Since the birth/death/resurrection of Christ, God is no longer continuing to operate through a temple in Israel, or the nation of Israel, but through the temple that is the body of Christ, the saints whom the Holy Spirit occupies. Not saying that this doesn't include Israel.

And no disagreement with you here either! but why do you insist on this:

jlay wrote:So, I'll stick with was/were [as in «Israel was God's chosen people»].

Is God finished with Israel? Are God's covenant promises to Israel null and void? If Israel no longer is God's chosen people, who is?

FL

You are.

Same plan. Any one who is chosen is grafted in.
"I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you."
Romans 11:1,13-18

Saying Israel "is" God's chosen people is not innacurrate, but also doesn't adequately represent where on the road of God's plan we are currently traveling. As Paul explains, God didn't just change His mind.
God's covenant promises are/were (always) in Christ. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 5, 'do not think I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets. I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.'

Fulfilled. Finished. Complete. So is he finished with Israel? depending on how you define finished, yes. But no, he hasn't simply kicked them to the curb. We all know there are theological positions that interpret Revelation as showing a redemptive plan specifically for Israel. (Jewish race) But we must understand that "we" are Israel, if we are in fact grafted in, and that there is no difference between Gentile and Jew. We are all attached to the same root. However, I feel it would be misguided to call what we know today as "Israel" the root. The root would be more accurately explained in Hebrews 11. And in verse 10. Isn't the nation of Israel a shadow of the things to come? Isn't the old covenant a propehtic shadow of the new in which God desires relationship with His church. and it is through Christ that peace with the Law has been fulfilled, permitting that relationship to come about.

I suggest witnessing to Jews NOW so they can be Israel/ the chosen people. I've studied it to some extent from the disppensational side and the other and can't tell you I quite know how all that exactly unfolds. It is quite a mystery. Amazing how one side can seem so sure, and the other as well, and both back up their position scripturally.