Evidence for God from Science

zoegirl wrote:david,

I am just very very curious. What doctrine/denomination do you follow? I think you have said that you are non-denominational but even non-den lean towards one doctrine or another.

I am non denominational as I said before. As Thank the Lord I never fit into their dogma and word twisting and self righteousness. And most of them were very wrathful. But that's more a discussion in a different sub-board than this.

I got a Science degree in Canada, and never used it until starting our website eight years ago, that way we wcould continue to be full time missioniries. What denomination are you part of ?

And then we can get back to showing the mathematical side of Creation including the speed of light.... and of course the distances and sizes, and speeds of planets, etc. etc... its a simple topic called sacred geometry which needs to be discussed rationally. But HERE at least we get concensus that the Lord is the Great Scientist, who had a plan, and was the DESIGNER....

Even though would say it is absolutely irrational for Him to have an incomplete plan that He kept tweeking to make better and better, or negating unfortunate non working plans and designs. via so called species selection and luck and chance evolution.

Anyway is any science person going to suggest that the forces of matter and energy evolved or even evolved slowly.

(Yet do understand that admitting this is a chink in your slow evolutionary creative design or whatever you call it. if laws didn;t evolve why would matter evolve. I'm trying to catch yourmeaning Zoegirl, but you must admit it is such a stretch as to be rather difficult unless you have been trained in creative slow evolutionary design if that is your terminology.)

Davidjayjordan wrote:

zoegirl wrote:david,

I am just very very curious. What doctrine/denomination do you follow? I think you have said that you are non-denominational but even non-den lean towards one doctrine or another.

I am non denominational as I said before. As Thank the Lord I never fit into their dogma and word twisting and self righteousness. And most of them were very wrathful. But that's more a discussion in a different sub-board than this.

I got a Science degree in Canada, and never used it until starting our website eight years ago, that way we wcould continue to be full time missioniries. What denomination are you part of ?

Reformed theology...but I was interested more becuase you seem to be very charismatic in your beliefs, especially with regard to your ideas concerning the demons and your end times....just curious

david wrote: And then we can get back to showing the mathematical side of Creation including the speed of light.... and of course the distances and sizes, and speeds of planets, etc. etc... its a simple topic called sacred geometry which needs to be discussed rationally. But HERE at least we get concensus that the Lord is the Great Scientist, who had a plan, and was the DESIGNER....

Even though would say it is absolutely irrational for Him to have an incomplete plan that He kept tweeking to make better and better, or negating unfortunate non working plans and designs. via so called species selection and luck and chance evolution.

But we *don't* say He was tweaking it. Here you reveal a great misconception in your thinking about our beliefs. Anything God would do would be inHis great plan. Nothing He does or did is a mistake and any animal He made that is part of the process is not a tweak but rather a fruition of HIs plans.

david wrote: Anyway is any science person going to suggest that the forces of matter and energy evolved or even evolved slowly.

(Yet do understand that admitting this is a chink in your slow evolutionary creative design or whatever you call it. if laws didn;t evolve why would matter evolve. I'm trying to catch yourmeaning Zoegirl, but you must admit it is such a stretch as to be rather difficult unless you have been trained in creative slow evolutionary design if that is your terminology.)

David, I have a feeling that debate with you will be very difficult since you seem to misunderstand, whether willfully or not, what I say. I think it would be prudent to not waste my time, especially considering that you are not here really interested in why we believe what we believe.

zoegirl wrote:David, I have a feeling that debate with you will be very difficult since you seem to misunderstand, whether willfully or not, what I say. I think it would be prudent to not waste my time, especially considering that you are not here really interested in why we believe what we believe.

Whew...it's not only me seeing this!
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David, I checked out your webpage and it has simply confirmed that I don't really want to waste my time debating with someone with whom I really disagree with about so many things concerning GOd and scritprue. I don't even thnk I'd know where to start.

YOu have some really bizarre, and in my opinion, unscriptural ideas about sexual imagery in the temple and tabernacle and you state in your webpage that you believe that not all scripture in GOd breathed (especially your treatise about PAul).

NOt to mention your ideas of science.

Davidjayjordan wrote:I got a Science degree in Canada

Are they sold in the markets that you "got" a "science degree" in Canada?
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Davidjayjordan wrote:...Anyway is any science person going to suggest that the forces of matter and energy evolved or even evolved slowly.

(Yet do understand that admitting this is a chink in your slow evolutionary creative design or whatever you call it. if laws didn;t evolve why would matter evolve. I'm trying to catch yourmeaning..., but you must admit it is such a stretch as to be rather difficult unless you have been trained in creative slow evolutionary design if that is your terminology.)

David,

Where did the first matter, material, star stuff come from?

Science 'person's' have not been able to answer this, nor have any settled this point definitively...
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BavarianWheels wrote:

zoegirl wrote:David, I have a feeling that debate with you will be very difficult since you seem to misunderstand, whether willfully or not, what I say. I think it would be prudent to not waste my time, especially considering that you are not here really interested in why we believe what we believe.

Whew...it's not only me seeing this!
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Yes, trying to understand your wierd doctrine of slow evolutionary design, is extremely difficult to comprehend, because surely it is completely ncomprehensible. But to you or as you say WE meaning there must be a bunch of you slow evolutionary design types HERE, it must be comforting to have each other for support.

So if your group sees no point in debate or discussion, I totally agree with you, as you have no substance for your irrational scientific basis.... only each other and possibly one line agreements with each other.

But let's summarize..... no one is debating that the Lord created all energy or matter in the BEGINNING, even though the slow evolutionary design folks may not have a beginning in Time or may keep changing it backwards so as to supposedly give the impossible tinme to be theoritically possible. (Lets label these slow evolutionary design folks, SEDS, as so many labels seem to be coming from their camp.)

I must be correct in this, RIGHT ? You SEDS are saying energy and the laws of physics were there from your beginning, and then matter, not perfectly developed matter, but transition matter and animals etc .. etc. got slowly changed by luck and chance into better matter or better species, that just happenned to then fit perfectly into other cycles that were in place previously by luck and chance design. Whoa, its a tough theory even to comprehend, even in the wildest imaginations of your minds.

So when you can't explain it, I quess you have to say debate is impossible. Or discussions would be impossible for you to continue on with.

So I do allow you SEDS to drop out of this discussion. No offense but you surely won;t bring anything to the table or the topic. Thanks for dropping out voluntarily.

Now back to the discussion with real scientists.

And the dogmatic YEC shows his real colors, despite his words earlier to that affect. We who are OEC or Progressive creationists are not true scientists. GOod to know.

zoegirl wrote:And the dogmatic YEC shows his real colors, despite his words earlier to that affect. We who are OEC or Progressive creationists are not true scientists. GOod to know.

Wait! Don't forget...he "got" his "science degree" from Canada!
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BavarianWheels wrote:

zoegirl wrote:And the dogmatic YEC shows his real colors, despite his words earlier to that affect. We who are OEC or Progressive creationists are not true scientists. GOod to know.

Wait! Don't forget...he "got" his "science degree" from Canada!
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Bavarian Wheels, on another board you mocked me without giving any sincere response, and HERE again on this board you are being follish and trying to mock Canada and my Science degree.

Are you really an administrator HERE and do you really represent the spirit and integrity that the owner wanted on this Christian scientific forum ?

Please answer ?

And do also state whether you are a Christian ? Does the owner know how you are responding and POSTING ?

Are only Americans allowed HERE, do you mock and despise others so fluently from your heart.

Does the administrator HERE, approve of your mockery. Is it not against the RULES HERE ? I must check on them again, as I thought I was coming to a non heathen CHRISTIAN LOGICAL RATIONAL SCIENTIFIC FORUM created for discussion and advancement in the principles of the LORD.

Davidjayjordan wrote:Bavarian Wheels, on another board you mocked me without giving any sincere response, and HERE again on this board you are being follish and trying to mock Canada and my Science degree.

Are you really an administrator HERE and do you really represent the spirit and integrity that the owner wanted on this Christian scientific forum ?

Please answer ?

And do also state whether you are a Christian ? Does the owner know how you are responding and POSTING ?

Are only Americans allowed HERE, do you mock and despise others so fluently from your heart.

Does the administrator HERE, approve of your mockery. Is it not against the RULES HERE ? I must check on them again, as I thought I was coming to a non heathen CHRISTIAN LOGICAL RATIONAL SCIENTIFIC FORUM created for discussion and advancement in the principles of the LORD.

Am I an administrator here? Surely with your intellect and science degree from Canada you would be able to deduce whether or not I am an administrator on this forum! It is not made too difficult to notice whom are the administrator(s) and/or moderators in any forum of this sort. The spirit and integrity of this forum, luckily, is not based on answers given to people that apparently have irrational thoughts on matters that don't really concern this forum. One such irrational thought or idea of yours is the apparent belief that the Mantauck (?) creature is a demon's body...and when you back this up with NO scientific data, but pictures of the skull of a bulldog...etc, it leaves one to figure you as either 1. joking, or 2. a kook. One cannot take your posts as serious as there is nothing I have seen yet of substance worthy of an "intelligent" answer, but questions that probe your integrity as a "scientist" and/or theologian.
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O.K. you are an adminstrator even on this subforum and therefore I should expect such mockery and slandering from you as your normal standard of behaviour and the modus operandi you have set as an example to all posters.

Are you a Christian, you didn't answer that.

And does the owner know you respond with such mockery on all forums as you have demonstarted or as can be seen from your latest POSTS.

Or if you disagree with an opinion of mine on one sub-board does this mean you can go to every sub biorad and act vilely and rudely and mockingly and slanderously because you differ. Is that also your priviledge alone or should everyone adopt your non principles of etiquette.

Or do you do this just to new people to set the tone that newebies are not allowed to differ with you or they shall encure your absolute wrath against them on everything they POST.

I reported your behaviour to the moderator, but I assume it will NOW only go to you, and you have excused your mockery and vile as warranted because you didn't like my spiritual/physical opinion on another subboard.

Does Rich approve of your so called moderation... as a so called administrator.

Will no one, differ with you, or are all under your control and fear ? And yet I thought a moderator or administrator was suppose to stop people and inflamatory mockery such as you have so easily unleashed and excused.

We shall see. Can someone report B.W. to Rich or is there any other administrator that differs with what Bavarian Wheels is doing and saying.

Davidjayjordan wrote:O.K. you are an adminstrator even on this subforum and therefore I should expect such mockery and slandering from you as your normal standard of behaviour and the modus operandi you have set as an example to all posters.

Are you a Christian, you didn't answer that.

And does the owner know you respond with such mockery on all forums as you have demonstarted or as can be seen from your latest POSTS.

Or if you disagree with an opinion of mine on one sub-board does this mean you can go to every sub biorad and act vilely and rudely and mockingly and slanderously because you differ. Is that also your priviledge alone or should everyone adopt your non principles of etiquette.

Or do you do this just to new people to set the tone that newebies are not allowed to differ with you or they shall encure your absolute wrath against them on everything they POST.

I reported your behaviour to the moderator, but I assume it will NOW only go to you, and you have excused your mockery and vile as warranted because you didn't like my spiritual/physical opinion on another subboard.

Does Rich approve of your so called moderation... as a so called administrator.

Will no one, differ with you, or are all under your control and fear ? And yet I thought a moderator or administrator was suppose to stop people and inflamatory mockery such as you have so easily unleashed and excused.

We shall see. Can someone report B.W. to Rich or is there any other administrator that differs with what Bavarian Wheels is doing and saying.

It's obvious you have not taken the time to do some simple scientific deduction on whether I am a moderator or administrator on this forum. This only goes to show...well, I'll let that stand as is.
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Davidjayjordan wrote: Bavarian Wheels, on another board you mocked me without giving any sincere response, and HERE again on this board you are being follish and trying to mock Canada and my Science degree.

Are you really an administrator HERE and do you really represent the spirit and integrity that the owner wanted on this Christian scientific forum ?

Please answer ?

And do also state whether you are a Christian ? Does the owner know how you are responding and POSTING ?

Are only Americans allowed HERE, do you mock and despise others so fluently from your heart.

Does the administrator HERE, approve of your mockery. Is it not against the RULES HERE ? I must check on them again, as I thought I was coming to a non heathen CHRISTIAN LOGICAL RATIONAL SCIENTIFIC FORUM created for discussion and advancement in the principles of the LORD.

Hi David,

Sorry for the confusion. Most of us are Christian here and a number of the moderators on this forum are actually Canadian also so you are in good hands. I've been noticing a little friction here in some of the postings.. While most of us are Christian, we get a lot YEC'rs and OEC'rs fighting for what we think is sound science. This is where you will find most disagreements, not so much in ones theology.. Now whether you think God sanctions YEC over OEC is a moot point. No one should attack someone elses Christianity over that unless someone believes that OEC is a twisting of God's word or is condemned by God himself (thus the person believing it). If the latter, then don't be surprised if you get a rise from some of the members here... Just a thought of precaution.

As for the rules... Yes please, let's all lay off the personal attacks. Thank you....

Note, if someone is a moderator they have the title "board admin". Also, most of the Christians here adhere to these basic beliefs...

http://www.godandscience.org/beliefs.html

Gman, the Board administrator, you didn;t really answer my questions nor conformor deny that B.W. words were in line or out of line for either an administrator or even a POSTER. Should I expect such slandering of Canada, my opinions and worse in posts to come. or will someone moderate and say such subjective slurs and insinuations are out of line.

You side stepped what B.W was writing. And he is suppose to set the standard rather than tearing any standard down.

Hi David, (HI G)

Sorry for the confusion. (Don;t you mean sorry for B.W. sad remarks_ ) Most of us are Christian here and a number of the moderators on this forum are actually Canadian also so you are in good hands. )Does this mean racual slurs against Canada and any country will not be tolerated?) I've been noticing a little friction here in some of the postings. (You mean B.W.s as he has been subjective , as can be noted, and seen.). While most of us are Christian, we get a lot YEC'rs and OEC'rs fighting for what we think is sound science. (As I have, and yet called a kok and nuty and wierd in only two days. I thought this was for objective discussion rather than labeling and subjective slurs.) This is where you will find most disagreements, not so much in ones theology.. (Never connected theology or salvation with people's good or poor science. As can be seen, I disconnected them as that encourages discussion rather than the wrath of whoever) Now whether you think God sanctions YEC over OEC is a moot point. (true so why do you allow labeling and then sunjective slurs not on topic. ) No one should attack someone elses Christianity over that unless someone believes that OEC is a twisting of God's word or is condemned by God himself (thus the person believing it). If the latter, then don't be surprised if you get a rise from some of the members here... Just a thought of precaution. (never did, but if these can go subjective and wrathful and name calling, and out of context and off subject because they differ in a picture opinion on one board isn;t it against the rules to carry over that ill personal appraisal to other boards and other topics. Will you stop foolish mockery, YES or NO. Or is group mockery allowed and promoted ?)

As for the rules... Yes please, let's all lay off the personal attacks. (You mean B.W and his comments, YES, do get him under control....) Thank you.... (Thank you, as I expect a Christian scientific board where rules apply rather than chaos and personal attacks)

Note, if someone is a moderator they have the title "board admin". Also, most of the Christians here adhere to these basic beliefs...

http://www.godandscience.org/beliefs.html

(Does this mean that B.W does have to adhere the basic beliefs and the POSTING rules of the scriptures that were POSTED on the LEAD BOARD ?)

Anayway, we shall see if there are any rules upheld HERE.

PST>>> G man that was a very diplomatic non committal response, but at least it was a type of response.

Onward Christian soldiers