Reading the bible all the way through

Discussions about the Bible, and any issues raised by Scripture.
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Jac3510
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by Jac3510 »

Byblos, what exactly is the RCC's teaching on the blasphemy of the HS? I did a quick Google search, but didn't find anything interesting on the front page. Do you happen to know if there is an official position (source?).

Anyway, Martyn, as Byblos noted, it is a contentious issue. My own take is that it can't be committed today in the sense in which Jesus talked about it, as it was an issue in a very specific historical context. With that said, it was included because it has analogous importance for us today, in that it warns us against rejecting the conviction of the Holy Spirit. So, let's look at the passage:
  • Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

    Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house. He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matt. 12:22-37, NIV)
Before we pick through this line by line, let's note two things about the context. First, we are in the middle of a unit that chronicles the rising tension between Jesus and the Pharisees. Matt 12:13, only a few verses back, is the first instance in which it is clearly stated that the Pharisees have decided they need to kill Jesus, and this in response to His healing on the Sabbath.

Next, 12:15 states that because of that (their desire to kill Him), Jesus withdrew from the area and heals others. Matthew then brings up Isaiah 42:1-4, citing fulfillment. In that passage, Isaiah prophecies that Jesus will work by the Spirit's power, and that He will do that work out of a sense of compassion (important, cf. 9:13 and 12:7), unlike the Pharisees. Thus, Jesus' miracles become a foil. Since they are done by the power of the Spirit and out of compassion, those who respond positively thus show themselves to be of God, whereas those who react negatively show themselves to be against God. That the Pharisees have decided they want Jesus to die on account of these miracles graphically demonstrates their own spiritual condition.

In that context, 12:22 opens with the phrase "then they brought Him . . ." First, note the progression of events. That this passage is not to be taken as a separate unit from the rest of our story so far is evident by the opening word, "then." We are continuing the story. The context has not changed. Everything that follows is to be viewed in the light we just discussed. Next, notice who brings Jesus the demoniac. It says, "they." Who is that? Verse 15 says "Many followed him, and he healed all their sick." It seems to me that there are two groups of people Matthew has in play:

1. The "Many," whom Jesus is healing;
2. The Pharisees.

Let's look at the different reaction each group has to Jesus' miracle:
  • "Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
We see that the first group recognizes that Jesus could be the Messiah. The Pharisees proclaim Him to be a "fellow" (lit. "this one") who operates by the power of Satan. The contrast is stark, and yet there is something still more subtle to note here. The Pharisees make their statement in hearing "this." Of what did they hear? The people's response to Jesus. Notice how their sin compounds. First, they rejected Jesus. Then, they wanted to kill Him. Finally, upon hearing the people wonder whether or not He could be the Messiah, they--unable to deny the miracle--place Him in league with Satan. As you note that progression, remember the purpose of Jesus' miracles here as discussed above.

We then come to Jesus' statement. Let's walk through it.

First, he points out the logical absurdity and thus desperation of their position. "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand" (12:25-26). Notice in this response that Jesus refers to Satan's kingdom. That is a truth attested to elsewhere in Scripture as well, but it also subtly raises the question: if Jesus is not of Satan's kingdom, but yet opposes it, then in whose kingdom are those who oppose Jesus? There is good reason to believe that the Pharisees themselves are more aligned with Satan than Jesus in that they are the ones doing the devil's work!

Next, Jesus points out a further fallacy in their thinking: "And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges" (27). He points to those of whom the Pharisees approve who drive out demons. If Satan can cast out Satan, then are they not open to the same charge? In short, their argument proves too much! Jesus then says that the very people whom the Pharisees exalt will condemn their argument.

Once their argument is demolished, Jesus takes them to the logical conclusion of His own works: "But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you" (28). Since Jesus cannot be driving out demons by Satan, but must be doing so by God, then He must be working from the power of God's Kingdom. Remember our foil. If one rejects the works of God's Kingdom, one is, in effect, rejecting God Himself.

Jesus supports this conclusion with another example: "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house" (29). Just as a man will defend his house if he can from an intruder, so Satan will defend his kingdom from intrusion if he can. Thus, just as one must disable the house's owner, so Jesus is disabling Satan as He works to establish God's Kingdom. But if Jesus is disabling Satan, He surely cannot be in league with him. In fact, it proves that He is stronger than Satan, a fact that points to His Messiahship.

Immediately before our problem verse, then, Jesus summarizes the issue: "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters" (30). Jesus draws a line in the sand. The one who is with Jesus is on God's side. The one who opposes Jesus is, like Satan, His enemy and will be destroyed. Remember who Jesus is talking to: the Pharisees. Thus, Jesus is effectively aligning the Pharisees with Satan, and promising their defeat.

He then explains that position: "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (31-32). First, Jesus notes that sins against human beings are forgivable. The reason is obvious. Though our sins against one another affect our relationship with God negatively, they do not sever it. If I sin against you, I may still claim loyalty to God, and upon that loyalty, you (or anyone), could point to my error, at which time I could repent and be forgiven. But sins--and specifically, blasphemy--against the Spirit are unforgivable. Now, keep this all in the context we have been addressing. What have the Pharisees been doing? They have explicitly rejected the works of the Spirit--specifically, Jesus' miracles--and have attributed them to Satan. Deut. 18:15 says, "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him." Far from listening to this Prophet, they reject Him. On what basis, then, could they ever be convinced that anything Jesus says is true? If He preaches the truth to them, they seek to kill Him. If He performs the miracles of God, they seek to kill Him. And why? It is not because they reject Him, but because they have rejected the works of the Spirit. The works of the Spirit are His testimony to who Jesus is. If you credit the Spirit's testimony to Satan (blasphemy), then whose testimony will you believe? Whose can you believe? And as forgiveness comes only through the name of Jesus, and as to profess His name is to do so under the conviction of the Spirit, how can one be forgiven if he not merely rejects, but even mocks, the Spirit's witness?

But here it is also evident that no one can be quite in this situation today, for where has Jesus ever performed a miracle since His resurrection? The Spirit completed His testimony of who Jesus is at the Cross, and today, it is the Word--the Scriptures--that the Spirit uses to convict us of truth. Put differently, when a person puts their faith in Christ, they do so on the commitment that what the Bible says is true. Consider John 3:16.
  • For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
How does a man know that he is saved? Because some preacher told him so? No, but because what the Bible says. If I believe John 3:16, then I must believe that I am saved--that I have eternal life--not because some man told me so, but because I believe God's Word to be true. If I do not believe God's word to be true, then I cannot know I am saved. If I believe I am saved while rejecting God's Word, then I am believing some testimony other than God's, which means I am putting my faith in something other than Christ. And no one but Christ can save. Thus, salvation comes by certifying that God is true (John 3:33). Likewise, if I do not believe I am saved, then I cannot say that I believe John 3:16. If anyone says, then, that they are no sure of their eternal destiny--if they do not know that they have eternal life, then they do not believe the Gospel, for they do not believe God's Word. If not believing God's Word, they reject the testimony of Scripture, which is the testimony of the Spirit by which He convicts us of truth.

Returning, then, to our passage, the Pharisees rejected the Spirit's testimony (in the form of Christ's miracles), and thus had no other testimony available to them. Further, they mocked that testimony--blasphemed against the Holy Spirit--meaning that they could not believe it at all, meaning that their sin would remain unforgiven throughout eternity.

To conclude the passage, then, Jesus says, "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Jesus compares the Pharisees to trees. Their fruit is their rejection of Christ's work. That fruit is because they, fundamentally, are bad. They must be made good (hence, the command to repent, so prevalent in Matthew) so that they can accept the Gospel and be saved. As it stands, their self-righteousness yields nothing but evil results. Thus, Jesus calls them a "brood of vipers." They, being bad, are not capable of calling anything good--at least, nothing that truly is good. They see good (the works of Christ) and reject it. It is only natural for them. They, being evil, do what evil does naturally, which is to condemn good. Come judgment day, their own words will be used against them. When asked if they believed the Spirit's testimony, their own words--which reveal what is within them--will show that they rejected the Gospel. And here's the bottom line: they rejected the Gospel because of what they were. Let me say that again. Their rejection of the Gospel did not make them evil. Their evil caused them to reject the Gospel (think again, of the parable of the four soils).

So, I return to my original statement. No one, today, can commit this sin in precisely the same sense Jesus meant it here, but the analogy for today is also clear. If one rejects Scripture as being fundamentally untrue, on what basis can they be saved? In short, they cannot. It is not until one recognizes that the Scripture is true--the word of God--that one can believe it. In that sense, one can commit a type of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit when he rejects the Bible itself. To this, I would point you, then, to Heb 6:4-6, a verse which teaches much of the same thing, only with reference to believers (which does not teach, by the way, that you can lose your salvation!).

Finally, this interpretation fits well in the overall purpose of Matthew. He wrote to demonstrate to Jewish Christians why, if their Messiah had come, they Kingdom promised in the Old Testament had not been established. The whole book teaches that the Kingdom will come when Christ returns, but that will not happen until Israel, as a nation, returns to Him (a message consistent with the OT prophets). As such, Matthew demonstrates for his readers why the leaders of Israel would not and could not come to Christ. They had rejected the Spirit's testimony while Jesus was on earth, and as such, their fate was sealed until a new generation could accept that testimony.

SO . . .

I know I have a tendency to be long winded, and we can now pass the offering plate, but that, for what it is worth, is my take on the passage. I hope you find it helpful.

God bless
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by Byblos »

Jac3510 wrote:Byblos, what exactly is the RCC's teaching on the blasphemy of the HS? I did a quick Google search, but didn't find anything interesting on the front page. Do you happen to know if there is an official position (source?).
The following article from the New Advent (a popular Catholic site) is a broad article that includes an explanation on the subject (towards the end a paragraph titled Sins against the Holy Ghost). I cannot say whether or not this is official Catholic teaching but it certainly sounds like it. Note the following three explanations (quoted verbatim):
- Sometimes, and in its most literal signification, it has been taken to mean the uttering of an insult against the Divine Spirit, applying the appellation either to the Holy Ghost or to all three Divine persons. This was the sin of the Pharisees, who spoke at first against "the Son of Man", criticizing the works and human ways of Jesus, accusing Him of loving good cheer and wine, of associating with the publicans, and who, later on, with undoubted bad faith, traduced His Divine works, the miracles which He wrought by virtue of His own Divinity.

- On the other hand, St. Augustine frequently explains blasphemy against the Holy Ghost to be final impenitence, perseverance till death in mortal sin. This impenitence is against the Holy Ghost, in the sense that it frustrates and is absolutely opposed to the remission of sins, and this remission is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, the mutual love of the Father and the Son. In this view, Jesus, in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 did not really accuse the Pharisees of blaspheming the Holy Ghost, He only warned them against the danger they were in of doing so.

- Finally, several Fathers, and after them, many scholastic theologians, apply the expression to all sins directly opposed to that quality which is, by appropriation, the characteristic quality of the Third Divine Person. Charity and goodness are especially attributed to the Holy Ghost, as power is to the Father and wisdom to the Son. Just, then, as they termed sins against the Father those that resulted from frailty, and sins against the Son those that sprang from ignorance, so the sins against the Holy Ghost are those that are committed from downright malice, either by despising or rejecting the inspirations and impulses which, having been stirred in man's soul by the Holy Ghost, would turn him away or deliver him from evil.
And what I was alluding to is emphasized below in the last paragraph in the article.
It is easy to see how this wide explanation suits all the circumstances of the case where Christ addresses the words to the Pharisees. These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare.

The sins against the Holy Ghost are said to be unpardonable, but the meaning of this assertion will vary very much according to which of the three explanations given above is accepted. As to final impenitence it is absolute; and this is easily understood, for even God cannot pardon where there is no repentance, and the moment of death is the fatal instant after which no mortal sin is remitted. It was because St. Augustine considered Christ's words to imply absolute unpardonableness that he held the sin against the Holy Ghost to be solely final impenitence. In the other two explanations, according to St. Thomas, the sin against the Holy Ghost is remissable -- not absolutely and always, but inasmuch as (considered in itself) it has not the claims and extenuating circumstance, inclining towards a pardon, that might be alleged in the case of sins of weakness and ignorance. He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action. It is true, that in either case, God could, by a miracle, overcome the evil; He could, by His omnipotent intervention, either nullify the natural causes of bodily death, or radically change the will of the stubborn sinner; but such intervention is not in accordance with His ordinary providence; and if he allows the secondary causes to act, if He offers the free human will of ordinary but sufficient grace, who shall seek cause of complaint? In a word, the irremissableness of the sins against the Holy Ghost is exclusively on the part of the sinner, on account of the sinner's act.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by GeneralD »

@Byblos:

May I ask, how do you respond/have you ever been confronted, with the notion that, the cross, made on the forhead at baptism and confirmation (and indeed death/last rights), is, the mark of the beast?
Lol, the sign of the cross as a mark of the beast? And I thought I'd heard it all. Where did you hear that? Can you give me some sources?
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by Byblos »

Byblos wrote:
GeneralD wrote:@Byblos:

May I ask, how do you respond/have you ever been confronted, with the notion that, the cross, made on the forhead at baptism and confirmation (and indeed death/last rights), is, the mark of the beast?
Lol, the sign of the cross as a mark of the beast? And I thought I'd heard it all. Where did you hear that? Can you give me some sources?
General I am so sorry about this. I went to respond to the portion addressed to me in your last post but instead of clicking on quote I clicked on edit instead (one of the dreaded options moderators have). Please repost the part addressed to Jac. Once again, sorry about that.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by GeneralD »

If you just google it you will come across it. I live in europe, and, we tend not to have the religious debates (atleast within christianity) that you guys in the states seem to have. However, I do have family who live there, and the idea was brought up during a discussion I can remember as a child.

And to jac I was just thanking once again for the superb reply, really thankful once again.

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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by ageofknowledge »

I would rather see someone take the first four books of the New Testament and live them out in their lives at the expense of the rest of the Word than see someone spend years sitting in a pew becoming a scholar on the entire Bible. Fortunately, it's not either or though. You can both take what you know already and live it out while continuing learning. Truth without life is an intellectual exercise and life without truth is a waste of time. The goal is to make your life reflect where truth meets life. That's where transformation occurs.
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Re: Reading the bible all the way through

Post by For_Narniaaa »

GeneralD wrote:
Who is ''they''? When God says, let us create man in our image? Who is he talking about? I thought God is God and knowone is like him? I did assume the angels who I believe are called the sons of God (if someone could explain that to me I would appreciate it btw). Though surely that cant be right?
This is what my study Bible's note says: "Why does God use the plural form, 'Let us make human beings in our image'? One view says this is a reference to the Trinity--God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit--all of whom are God. Another view is that the plural wording is used to denote majesty. Kings traditionally use the plural form in speaking of themselves." (Life Application Study Bible, note to Genesis 1:26)
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