Evidence for God from Science

"Oh and one more thing, what makes Paul's letters worth being in the Bible anyway? I don't mean that in a bad way, but why his letters? I have read some responses on other threads to this and I am still not very convinced. Any help would be great."

Jac,

Why so defensive? Many of us weren't raised in the church but converted as teens and adults and there was a time when we asked the same questions. It's simply someone needing to be fed (milk not meat).

Paul's letters have a great deal to say that collides with the values of this generation's post-Christian hedonistic modern liberal society. Just look at the series of answers given to a young person who asked this question on Yahoo Answers: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 902AAAKIeQ

The ignorance and bias just oozes out of the world's reply to this young man's question.

Which is why we should answer it here rather than deride the young person for not understanding.

Gabriel,

Read this introduction to your question from Norman Geisler a well respected theologian in Christiandom: http://www.ankerburg.org/Articles/_PDFA ... 1W0999.pdf

What do you get out of it?

AoK:

My response wasn't meant to be defensive as I don't feel I've been personally attacked. It was pointed, for sure. Well intentioned denial of the Bible is still denial of the Bible. In that case, what basis is there to have any discussion whatsoever?

Now, if Gabriel wants to have a discussion on why we should consider the Bible the inspired, inerrant Word of God, then I have no problem having that discussion in a perfectly reasonable (non-pointed) manner. But to argue about what the Bible says on a topic by dismissing it is rather disingenuous. Ultimately, my friend, it is an authority issue. Either we put ourselves under Scripture or we put Scripture under us. There's no middle ground here.

Gabriel, I do apologize if you took my words in a personally offensive way. I am simply trying to get you to see the enormity of what you are saying. There can no agreement of any kind on biblical issues when one person is willing to throw the Bible out. I may as well argue what the Bible says with an atheist! I'm obviously not calling you an atheist. What I am saying is that just like Paul's words have no authority for him, you tell me that they have no authority for you. If, then, my take on these things is rooted in what the Bible has to say, then what could I possibly say that would have any relevance to your thought processes? And if you are not going to take your position based on what the Bible says, what could you possibly say that would have any relevance to me?

I strongly encourage you to reconsider your position. The results are devastating to any kind of Christianity. If we can throw out one verse because we don't like what it says, why not another? Why not the doctrine of sin or the atonement? Why believe Jesus said a single word attributed to Him?

In short, Christianity becomes nothing more than what you want it to be. That's not a very firm ground to stand on, sir!

God bless

Jac here is what I am getting at. Why were Paul's letters considered authoritative? There were other scriptures that were thown out, but Paul's letters were not. With some of what he says I question why they were included. Is it too much to ask for an answer to that? I do not understand why some books were made authoritaive, while others were just thrown out. This is something I have always wondered about. I have a lot I don't understand and need answers to.
Age, thanks I read that it did help a little. I am still seaking answers and understanding about God's Word.
Jac...

Jac3510 wrote:Truth is, Gabriel, you have put yourself in the position of authority. You have put yourself over God. He has spoken, and you have said, "No. I disagree." That's between you and God, not me and you. But there is absolutely nothing more to say on the issue of female preachers (or ANYTHING Biblical), because my basis will ALWAYS be what the Bible says, whereas yours will be what Gabriel says.

I have done no such thing. I asked a legitament question and was never answered. In fact this entire time since I brought any of this up you have not given an anwser to me. I am asking why some things are in, and others out. Age gave me a good refrence and that does answer a few questions. That is part of the reason I came to this site. I am still wondering why Paul at times says *I* instead of "God", is he making comands, or is God making them. I am trying to figure this out and you only decided to not answer. I will refrase my earlier statment, I believe Paul made a sexist comment, but I cannot be postive of this, I am only saying that he was only human and capable of mistakes. Anyway, I am still trying to figure this out as to why back then a council got to make all the calls on what is in and what is out and what criteria they must meet. Just my own thoughts and questions. It is like Age said, I need not the meat, but the milk. I agree with him. When I came to Christ I knew nothing about the Bible, the I had my bad moments (which is backsliding) and was filled with indoctrination form a lot of people and I am trying to sort it all out. I am a conservitve, I hold to conservitve values, but I am not ultra conservitive. In other words I have an open mind, but I will stay stead fast in my core beliefs, women not being allowed to preach was not one of those core beliefs so you can see where I would question Paul.
God bless and please just try to answer next time.

Jac apologized Gabrielman. So your responsibility is now to forgive him 70 x 7 and also give him a chance to answer your question. I don't agree with this new fangled "classic" dispensationalism hypothesis... lol but that doesn't mean jac isn't a smart guy. Wrong about a few important things imo but very often right as well. This is a topic he can answer. Here's some meat if you dare:

Systematic Theology, Vol. 1: Introduction/Bible by Norman L. Geisler

Hmmm... didn't mean to make it sound as though I didn't forgive him, not that I held anything against him either. So far as the books goes, haven't looked yet. I am currently taking classes on the bible and am trying to learn about it and the whys and hows of the Word, but I have done nothing in depth. I have only thus far taken a course on a survey of the OT and a survey of the NT. I still don't know who to believe and why I should believe them. Think about it, there are a bunch of different denomontaions that cut the Word up into what they want it to be and then interpret as they will. They all claim to be right, so who to trust? I will figure these things out, and make my own decison about what to believe. What branch gets it right? Who really knows. I don't but I have my own beliefs on the subjects as well. The only way to know for sure is to have God himself tell us, I guess. Part of the reason I came here is to learn, however I do know a thing or two and will help where I can.
Jac, sorry if it sounded like I didn't forgive you. However I never held any ill will toward you, you did not offend me.
God bless.
Oh and don't fear, I am still young and uneducated when it comes to the Word, that happens when you hang with the wrong kind of "Christian". You have nothing to fear form me at all. I make no claim to any sort of knowledge, I just call them like I see em. That isn't the best stratagy I'm sure, but it's all I have right now. Age you were right on you obeservation, I have little understanding of the Bible. Don't think that means I will take everything at face value though, I will ask, I will come to my own conclusions. I don't accept everything someone tells me when it comes to the Word of God.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... rigin.html You see now this is one source of info that no one gave, and it was right here. I read it, and I am doing some independent research on it. That's how I operate.

Here is a really excellent article on the history of the bible--it's long and it covers a lot. It comes from a different site, but Rich has it as a link at the main site. It even has a whole section on Paul's letters: http://www.bethinking.org/bible-jesus/t ... tament.htm

^_^

Here is a good article on 1 Timothy 2:12 also. It is what I read much of before, and this article makes a good presentation in a short amount of space. http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html

preaching and teaching is fine.. but not Priesthood