Evidence for God from Science

jlay wrote:

From start to finish? Nope. In the process of forming? Yup.

Wow! This is amazing. Is it possible that there are alternate explanations? Is this even a fact, or a theory?

My point is that it's a gray spectrum between no planet and a fully formed planet, not a black and white deliniation.

Then how can you be so certain regarding Fomalhaut B?
The planet is 25 light-years away. And suddenly we know how old it is, and that it is in this specific time of formation? The fact is that FB is like looking at a grain of sand in a sandbox. Even with hubble, it is a spec. I went ahead and did a little research (since its not top secret) and it is littered with "maybes" and "may haves." In other words speculation. An obvious sign of folks trying to apply their interpretations to the evidence.

There are always alternate explanations. The planetary accretion theory explains the observation better than any other theory I've heard mentioned and, more importantly, the observations match the hypotheses of the theory; it's not a post hoc crowbarring of the observations to fit a theory.

ETA - We know, for example, that the "speck" is orbiting its star as it obeys Kepler's laws. We know it is probably accreting from a dust disk as the planet's existence was originally (i.e. before it was ever imaged) by the existence of an orbital-shaped gap in the dust disk.

OK guys put your head on a block and say how old you think the earth is

1) six thousand years................................?

2) Ten thousand years...................................?

3) Billions of years.........................................? I agree with this idea

Alan McDougall wrote:OK guys put your head on a block and say how old you think the earth is

1) six thousand years................................?

2) Ten thousand years...................................?

3) Billions of years.........................................? I agree with this idea

Hey Alan, have you even looked at the main page and read some of the articles there?

Alan McDougall wrote:OK guys put your head on a block and say how old you think the earth is

The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. That's about one third the age of the universe (~13.7 billion years).

Hi guys I have been thinking and you know what the six twenty four hour creation of the universe and earth is corect both biblically and scientifically. You see time does not flow as a constant in the early universe and its colossal gravity time flowed billions of times slower that it does now in the weak gravity of our present day universe (Correct Einstein General Relativity (not a theory a fact)")

Thus

Time in my opinion is speeding up a year with a now clock might be a billion years of the primordial clock

Now TIME<----------------------------------------------------------------<Time Big Bang

.Now<. one day..........<.........................................................................................................................<. 10 billion years.< time begins

Thus ten billion primordial dayss might equal one present day of creation

Thus "one billion present years" could equal "one year" on the primordial clocks and calenders. Or clocks are thus revolving a billion time faster that the BIG BANG clocks

Time is stretching like an elastic string the further from the big bang the greater it stretches and accelerates

All speculation on my part however.

Alan -
Time might be stretching, but a day (on earth) is defined as how long it takes the planet to revolve once on its axis.

Alan McDougall wrote:(Correct Einstein General Relativity (not a theory a fact)")

Wait... How come general relativity is a fact (it isn't), but evolution is a:

Gman wrote:religious faith based philosophy

touchingcloth wrote:Alan -
Time might be stretching, but a day (on earth) is defined as how long it takes the planet to revolve once on its axis.

If you hypothetically landed of a neutron star within its colossal gravity field and assume it revolves in one relative earth day. On your journey to the star you bring you very accurate wristwatch set at earth time constant.

If you could hypothetically isolate your wristwatch from the gravity field of the neutron star, it would begin to spin at an enormous rate and the neutron star might take a million revolutions of your accurate earth clock for one revolution or day on the neutron star.

Thus the ratio is one Earth Day 1000/1 day neutron star (just an example) or

Thus the ration is one Neutron star day/time slows by a factor of a 1to a 1000

It is a proved fact that time moves differently in different gravity field. Thus time moves faster in the smaller gravity of the moon compared to earth but the difference is infinitesimally small

Cant you feel that time is speeding up , Daniel said in the last days men will rush too and fro and knowledge will be increased, thus the bible is correct

To God a billion years can be but a day and a day 10 billion years, God is the Author of existence and he lays down and controls the laws of physics,

At the moment of the singularity time stood still, until God allowed it to flow in defiance of all the laws of know physics

Alan -
It's all relative though. A clock in high gravity will run slow relative to one that is in lower gravity.
Take 2 clocks that are calibrated by the earth and on the earth so that after a, say, certain number of quartz vibrations they report "one day has passed" (calibrate it to either a solar or sidereal day).
- Leave one clock on earth and take one clock to a neutron star or some other region of high gravity.
- Let one day pass for the observer on earth, then take a reading of both clocs
- The clock on earth will read "one day has passed", the high-gravity clock will only have experienced a fraction of the number of quartz vibrations that the clock on earth did.

The point is that, to either observer, one day will still have passed as it is defined by a rotation of the earth. The observer on the neutron star would see that earth revolved really fast but it would still be a single day.

touchingcloth wrote:Alan -
It's all relative though. A clock in high gravity will run slow relative to one that is in lower gravity.
Take 2 clocks that are calibrated by the earth and on the earth so that after a, say, certain number of quartz vibrations they report "one day has passed" (calibrate it to either a solar or sidereal day).
- Leave one clock on earth and take one clock to a neutron star or some other region of high gravity.
- Let one day pass for the observer on earth, then take a reading of both clocs
- The clock on earth will read "one day has passed", the high-gravity clock will only have experienced a fraction of the number of quartz vibrations that the clock on earth did.

The point is that, to either observer, one day will still have passed as it is defined by a rotation of the earth. The observer on the neutron star would see that earth revolved really fast but it would still be a single day.

The point is that God set his clock to the present day earth time flow constant when he created the universe. Thus going back to the unimaginable high gravity at the moment of the big bang, time was compressed but his God clock still ran at earth speed. This gave God all the time he needed while creating the emerging dense universe where time moved at a snails pace relative to Gods twenty four hour earth clock. Remember God is outside of time and space and created everything to our local time flow, he did not use the faster rate of of time in the early universe as there was no day yet. He knew that he was going to create the earth and when he was ready to put man on it a day would be 24 hours although to him many relative days were passing. God cannot lie and if he said he created the whole universe in 6 days earth days that is exactly what he did

Alan, that is some interesting stuff.

jlay wrote:Alan, that is some interesting stuff.

Right can God work faster than us absolutely YES could he do in one day what would take us billions of years, again yes. God is infinite and he could have done all the work of creation that "we think took billions of years in just one earth day". Remember God is INFINITE in power omni all.

Assume you had to build a house on your own it would most likely take you five years. But a host of builders could do the whole thing in a week or so.

During the war the USA were building one liberty war ship each day (check it out if you like) Usually that type of ship would have taken months to build. Relate this to our assumption that God needs billions of years to create the universe, "that is our little infinitesimal minds working", God can do a heck of a lot more in one twenty four earth hour than we can ever imagine.

Do you get my analogy here??

So we humans with our great intellects slow God down and limit him in our minds to our snails pace forgetting he is INFINITE

By the way I was acting as a Devils Advocate in this thread

Alan McDougall wrote:The point is that God set his clock to the present day earth time flow constant when he created the universe.

Wait... Are you implying that the Earth is the centre of the universe?

ManOfScience wrote:

Alan McDougall wrote:The point is that God set his clock to the present day earth time flow constant when he created the universe.

Wait... Are you implying that the Earth is the centre of the universe?

Of course not the universe has no centre!!

Genesis is talking about three creative acts of God,the heavens, the plant life,
animal life and human life Jer chapter 4, 23-26 , Isa. 251-14-18 clearly indicate the earth prior to the previous creative events mentioned, had undergone a previous catastrophe . Thus the earth was void of life but already created in Gen 1, 2

Gen.1,1 (Creation of the universe)
before time

Gen 1,-2 (Repair of the void earth)
Gen 1,3-4 -5 (Light of the sun perpetrates the void)
Day one completed

Gen 1, 6-7-8 (Restore the oceans clouds full the sky))
Day two completed


#### God creates the beautiful Garden of Eden and creates Adam and Eve, puzzled? Gen 2, 5 clearly shows, God created the garden of Eden and Adam and Eve "before there were any plant life on the earth" that only happened on day three below, NOT IN DAY SEVEN Go to #### below
(in day two)

Gen 1 ,9-10-11-12-13 (Land restored and God seeds the renewed earth with plant life)
(Day three completed)

Gen 1, 14-15-16-17-18-19 (Clouds clear and the sun and moon appear)
(Day four completed)

Gen 1, 20-21-22-23 (Animals on water and on land, notice like man he blesses the great whales)
(Day Five completed)

Gen 1, 24-25-26-27 (God greatest creative work man and woman, "but not true man" "Adam has already been created on day two" which he blesses)
(Day six completed)


God says replenish the earth note you only replenish something that was previously emptied (First creation made void before day One)

Gen 2,1-2-3 (God rest from his work)

(The seventh day we still live in)

God goes back in time and creates the garden of Eden and the Man Adam but on Day "TWO" NOT DAY "SEVEN" go to #### above


What do you guys think??

Here are a few responses to it...

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... TBCVagTvyH

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... vR42aJatT1

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... nupUke6sgQ

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... TvwNl5Bf23