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Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:44 am
by August
rare96ws6 wrote: I mentioned gravity can be observed. What I meant is that if I hold a rock in my hand and then open up my hand, the rock will fall to the earth. This happens every time I have ever picked up a rock and opened my hand. I have made an observation. I have observed gravity.
No you haven't. You have observed an effect of gravity, not gravity itself. And you did not really answer my question. I asked about the physical properties of gravity that you observe with your senses, like you claimed, not the effects of gravity.
I don't see anything in my post that doubts you know how the scientific method works, so I don't understand the use of your statement about it.
Yet you saw fit to explain it to me. And you did not answer my question about how you come to know what the scientific method means.
You are correct that it does take faith to believe that your hypothesis is true or not. Experimentation is done to see if it is.
No, that is not what I meant. You have to have faith in a lot of unobserved things for science to work. For example, you have to have faith in the reliability of the senses. You have to have faith that things will be tomorrow as it is today.
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:47 am
by Byblos
rare96ws6 wrote:Byblos wrote:rare96ws6 wrote:How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logical to believe in something?
Try to think of how many things you believe on faith then imagine your life if you didn't.
I mentioned faith as being illogical when there is no evidence, not faith in things we can know. I have faith that there
is a brain in side of my head. if I get an MRI done, I can see that brain. I have faith that God exists, but I can not in
any way see evidence of him.
How many things do you take on faith without having seen evidence of? Can you think of any? I can think of at least a few.
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:13 am
by B. W.
rare96ws6 wrote:Byblos wrote:rare96ws6 wrote:How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logical to believe in something?
Try to think of how many things you believe on faith then imagine your life if you didn't.
I mentioned faith as being illogical when there is no evidence, not faith in things we can know. I have faith that there
is a brain in side of my head. if I get an MRI done, I can see that brain. I have faith that God exists, but I can not in
any way see evidence of him.
Before MRI's existed or even the first autopsy for that matter- did brains exist?
How could atomic particles exist before there was a microscope to see them?
How could the invention of the Light Bulb happen — if none existed before?
You certainly appear to not understand faith at all — nor what it is…or does...
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Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:48 pm
by rare96ws6
B. W. wrote:rare96ws6 wrote:Byblos wrote:rare96ws6 wrote:How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logical to believe in something?
Try to think of how many things you believe on faith then imagine your life if you didn't.
I mentioned faith as being illogical when there is no evidence, not faith in things we can know. I have faith that there
is a brain in side of my head. if I get an MRI done, I can see that brain. I have faith that God exists, but I can not in
any way see evidence of him.
Before MRI's existed or even the first autopsy for that matter- did brains exist?
How could atomic particles exist before there was a microscope to see them?
How could the invention of the Light Bulb happen — if none existed before?
You certainly appear to not understand faith at all — nor what it is…or does...
Like I mentioned above, it takes faith to believe in a theory or hypothesis. Experimentation is done to try to prove what you believe to be true. I understand faith. It is why I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I want to believe that he died for my sins, although so far, there is no physical evidence that I see that supports this. Just because the Bible states it, does not make it true. Many other religions have faith in their beliefs too, but it does not make them correct.
Do you see faith as something different? if so, please explain.
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:51 pm
by rare96ws6
August wrote:rare96ws6 wrote: I mentioned gravity can be observed. What I meant is that if I hold a rock in my hand and then open up my hand, the rock will fall to the earth. This happens every time I have ever picked up a rock and opened my hand. I have made an observation. I have observed gravity.
No you haven't. You have observed an effect of gravity, not gravity itself. And you did not really answer my question. I asked about the physical properties of gravity that you observe with your senses, like you claimed, not the effects of gravity.
I observe the effects. So what effects can I observe for the presence of God? Substitute fire for gravity if you do not like my word usage.I see its flame and feel its heat.
I don't see anything in my post that doubts you know how the scientific method works, so I don't understand the use of your statement about it.
Yet you saw fit to explain it to me. And you did not answer my question about how you come to know what the scientific method means.
What are you asking here, a definition or why it is used or how it works?
You are correct that it does take faith to believe that your hypothesis is true or not. Experimentation is done to see if it is.
No, that is not what I meant. You have to have faith in a lot of unobserved things for science to work. For example, you have to have faith in the reliability of the senses. You have to have faith that things will be tomorrow as it is today.
I see what you mean now.
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:16 pm
by rare96ws6
My post got hidden up in your quote, so I will write it here where it is easier to see.
So I see the effects of gravity and not gravity itself. OK, I'll buy that. Show me the effects of the presence of God.
Also, we can substitue fire for gravity if you like. I can see it and feel its flame.
I do not understand what you are asking about the scientific method. Do you want a definition or the history about
how it cmae to be used?
Also, I see what you meant about faith now. Faith in how my senses work may help me with the physical world around me, but they do not seem to help me sense God.
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:21 pm
by B. W.
rare96ws6 wrote:...Like I mentioned above, it takes faith to believe in a theory or hypothesis. Experimentation is done to try to prove what you believe to be true. I understand faith. It is why I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I want to believe that he died for my sins, although so far, there is no physical evidence that I see that supports this. Just because the Bible states it, does not make it true. Many other religions have faith in their beliefs too, but it does not make them correct.
Do you see faith as something different? if so, please explain.
I corrected what I could of your post - next time - just let the Forum do the work and if you use Word or Works to correct your writings - always post at the bottom and never inside the {quotes}
Now...
We have a book — called the Holy Bible - it can be read and its words, teachings, tested and be proven true. It is unlike any other book out there.
Therefore we can experiment, test, and prove from an objective source discovering that God is indeed real: From this — faith in a reality.
One aspect of faith is this — it divides. This is neglected and not understood. Faith in Christ will divide one away from having faith in the world's system. Next, the bible is that conveyor of faith (loyalty, fidelity, trust) dividing those whose faith (loyalty, fidelity, trust) is in other things or in Him.
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Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:34 pm
by rare96ws6
I like what you wrote about faith. What do you mean by "faith in the world's system"? Personally, my faith in Jesus has opened up a line of questioning. I have faith that Jesus is who the Bible states he is, but I can not prove this in any way subjectively, only objectively like you state. I know that Science can not prove God exists, but is seems like as time goes on, God shrinks. He uses to be behind every minute thing in our daily lives hundreds of years ago. Now he is only what we label miracles when science can not give an answer. I struggle with why God hides himself so much from us. Faith is tough!
Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:43 pm
by B. W.
rare96ws6 wrote:I like what you wrote about faith. What do you mean by "faith in the world's system"? Personally, my faith in Jesus has opened up a line of questioning. I have faith that Jesus is who the Bible states he is, but I can not prove this in any way subjectively, only objectively like you state. I know that Science can not prove God exists, but is seems like as time goes on, God shrinks. He uses to be behind every minute thing in our daily lives hundreds of years ago. Now he is only what we label miracles when science can not give an answer. I struggle with why God hides himself so much from us. Faith is tough!
Proverbs 25:2, "
It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out..." ESV
There were many times before when as time went on - God shrinks but then there were those that sought out the matter and revival ensued...
Will you be one who does not shrink from God and reveal what you find?
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Re: What makes non-believers disbelieve?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:08 am
by rare96ws6
I hope and pray so!