Stars in the Bible (Gospel in the Sky Theory)

[JB2011]

Hi

While it is not the Gospel, I have been looking at the Book of Revelation and that appears to be founded in astronomical observation. I have written a piece http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =467009712 as an example, but have lots more to share.

For the record, I am a Christian, I believe that the Bible is accurate and I believe that God shares his wisdom with us when it is appropriate and we should celebrate that. I believe that John of Patmos was a genius years ahead of his time but was forced to encode his text to avoid its destruction in transit by the Romans. God ensured it endured so that we identify this genius and praise Him. Genius is God's inspiration and without it the world would be a much different place. "Seek and ye shall find" is what we are told to do. So I have done just that.

Take a look. I don't expect anyone to take much notice of it as it contradicts 2000 years of doctrine. Nobody I have mentioned it to is at all interested and it seems cursed. Maybe God only opens the eyes of a few who will appreciate and celebrate the hidden message. Those with closed eyes and minds are not permitted to see God's Truth until they are ready (If they ever are), it would seem.

God bless and Merry Christmas.

[jlay]

I read your post and link in another thread. If you could better communicate in lay terms your conclusions, that may be a big help. i am no astronomer.

[Gman]

Hi

While it is not the Gospel, I have been looking at the Book of Revelation and that appears to be founded in astronomical observation. I have written a piece http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =467009712 as an example, but have lots more to share.

For the record, I am a Christian, I believe that the Bible is accurate and I believe that God shares his wisdom with us when it is appropriate and we should celebrate that. I believe that John of Patmos was a genius years ahead of his time but was forced to encode his text to avoid its destruction in transit by the Romans. God ensured it endured so that we identify this genius and praise Him. Genius is God's inspiration and without it the world would be a much different place. "Seek and ye shall find" is what we are told to do. So I have done just that.

Take a look. I don't expect anyone to take much notice of it as it contradicts 2000 years of doctrine. Nobody I have mentioned it to is at all interested and it seems cursed. Maybe God only opens the eyes of a few who will appreciate and celebrate the hidden message. Those with closed eyes and minds are not permitted to see God's Truth until they are ready (If they ever are), it would seem.

God bless and Merry Christmas.

Very interesting JB. I've written on the subject more here. Again, it would just be theory in my book for now..

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... stellation

[JB2011]

I read your post and link in another thread. If you could better communicate in lay terms your conclusions, that may be a big help. i am no astronomer.

Hi

I will do my best. I am no astronomer either, but have tried to apply myself to it as part of the process. I am a linguist (ie arts), not a scientist, but we are told to study to understand as much as we can about the Bible which sometimes means taking on things new and daunting.

Here goes...

First and foremost, the primary conclusion is that literally interpreting the book is mistaken and there is an embedded message which is no longer something that will transform heaven and earth as expected. That transformation happened 400 years ago, 1600 years later than John expected. We therefore need to assign the Book of Revelation to the annals of history and see it purely as an example of genius, the fruit of God's wisdom.

So what happened 400 years ago that transformed heaven and earth? We changed our view on the nature of the universe. The earth was no longer the centre of everything, the sun was. We moved from seeing the solar system as geocentric to heliocentric.

That is what John proves in his book and here, in a nutshell, are the reasons:

1. John of Patmos is a literate, educated man who writes in the style of the other "prophets" indicating he is well-read. He is numerate, he knows his gemstones, his apostles etc. Therefore one can conclude that he is something of a scholar.

2. In John's day there were seven classical planets: the sun, the moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. These planets pass through the zodiac constellations (Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn. There is a thirteenth constellation between Scorpio and Sagittarius. This is Ophiuchus. Note, this is astronomy, not astrology.) on a fixed path which is circular. The sun takes a year. The moon takes a lunar month. Saturn takes 30 years. Each planet will always be in one of the thirteen constellations. On any date in history one can identify where the planets were, are or will be. One can also determine the date if one knows where the planets were.

The seven stars in Chapter 1 are the seven angels which are the seven planets.
The seven lampstands are the seven churches which are the constellations they planets are in at a particular point in time.
The seven spirits sent out to the world are the seven days of the week which are named after the seven planets in most of Europe.
The seven angels in the seven churches are seven planets in seven constellations.
To be able to identify correctly the planets in the constellations as John would have seen them, we need his location on Earth. John gives us this as Patmos.

3. There is a lot of mythology attached to the planets. They are named in English after the Roman gods which each have a Greek equivalent. John was Greek. Homer wrote a series of poems about the Greek gods (the Homeric hymns) which John uses to reference the planets. Homer would have been required reading in John's day.

4. The seven letters to the seven churches (who were never the intended recipients of the book) each point to a planet/constellation combination. They serve as a dictionary of terms referencing Homer's poems and physical aspects of the constellations. Seven stars on a man's arm is the bow of Sagittarius, for example. The double-edged sword is the sword of Orion which almost touches the path the planets pass along when they are in Gemini.

1 Venus Sagittarius Ephesus
2 Jupiter Sagittarius Smyrna
3 Moon Gemini Pergamum
4 Mars Gemini Thyatira
5 Mercury Sagittarius Sardis
6 Sun Sagittarius Philadelphia
7 Saturn Libra Laodicea

5. From the letters to the churches we get seven planet/constellation pairs and can calculate the date. It is 21 December, the shortest day of the year, 98AD. This combination only repeats itself every several thousand years. This date fits with current thinking as to when the book was written.

Note how tidily the constellations are grouped. John has tried to keep it simple. He then gives another chance with the four horsemen which achieve the same results (see below).

6. John goes to heaven a sees twenty four elders wearing crowns. The elders represent time, the crowns represent a year. All the events in John's book happen over a period of 24 years.

7. There are then an additional six sets of observations doubly described in pairs (this is the double-sided book) all happening between 79AD and 103AD, including a number of eclipses.

-- Then there is a lot patience required to work through it all --

Finally:
8. John has calculated the size of the solar system from the positions of the planets during his observations. He has determined that the sun is at the centre. (The old heaven will pass; there will be a new heaven and earth)
He gives us quite a few useful numbers as well to help us along.

Supporting evidence
=================

The following consistently supports my conclusion, I believe, and will be the questions people will ask first:

New Jerusalem/New Earth: is a sphere (not a cube) with the sun at the centre and 12 pearly gates (constellations).
It is 12000 stadia wide.
12000 x diameter of earth (8000 miles) = 96 million miles, the distance from the earth to the sun.
There are no records of anyone having calculated this in the first century AD.

144,000 = 12 "tribes" x 12,000. 12,000 represents the earth, 12 represents the constellations through which the earth is passing, just like the other planets.

Babylon: the old "geocentric system" which will fall

Whore of Babylon: The Earth bedecked with the stars (jewels) believing that constellations like Crater the wine cup as well as the planets are circling it rather than the other way

Beast: The moon, whose orbit/distance is very difficult to calculate and fluctuates a great deal. This is why 616 has also appeared. The moon is never the same distance from the Earth.

Lamb: The moon as an accurate, dependable time recorder

The Second Beast with two horns like a lamb: The moon in two lunar days time which will confirm or deny John's calculations (hence Second Beast is Like a Lamb) and eventually breath life into his image of the Beast (forecast)

666 which one should calculate: a circle of area 666 has a diameter of 29.12. The distance from Earth to the moon is 29.12 x earth's diameter.

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition": The beast is the moon which is in the sky for part of the day and has gone below the horizon into perdition . It is one of the seven classical planets, but now that the earth is joining the other planets and the sun, it becomes the eighth.

24 elders: 24 years. The next eclipse is ushered in when they throw down their crowns

Crown: one solar year (one complete rotation of the sun through the constellations)

Horn: one solar day, a celestial hour (15 degrees, one twenty fourth of a circle)
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast": Each horn is a period of one hour literally. The moon is below the horizon (in perdition) for ten hours of the day.

Head/Mountain: one lunar month (a 360 degree rotation of the moon) = 24 celestial hours/a celestial day (360 degrees/a full circle). "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." - The woman is the Earth sitting in the middle of the orbits of the seven classical planets in the geocentric model.

King: a finite point in time. Hence the seven kings: five have fallen (past observations), one is (present observation), one is to come for a short space (one more finite observation to go)

Kingdom: a set of connected/sequential points in time (a "kingdom" exists through time and not just in space; usually consists of a number of "kings" who wear "crowns")

1260 days: 1260 days, literally. It is the time between two of the observations. The prophetic time period is not relevant in the Revelation of John.

42 months: 42 lunar months (<> 1260 days), hence the change of noun

The four horsemen:
White: Jupiter in Sagittarius (bow) next to the sun (crown)
Black: Saturn, god of agriculture (hence the wheat and barley) in Libra, the balance
Red: Mars in Gemini on Orion's sword
Pale: Venus (had power over animals etc) in Ophiuchus (death)
Hades: Mercury (escorted souls to Hades) always following Venus

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any suggestions or can offer any help in simplifying this, it would be much appreciated. I know it takes some thought to process it all, but then it was never meant to be simple, otherwise we wouldn't be here now.

Thanks so much.

[Gman]

The scene itself (verses 7 to 11) - Stage 1

Horses: Pegasus
Battle
Heads: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Crowns: Andromeda (a princess)
Gold: the sun
Faces: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Human faces: IC4665 in Ophiuchus
Hair: Coma Berenices
Women's hair: Venus on Virgo's head
Teeth: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Lion's teeth: Beehive cluster, with a magnitude of 3.1 is on the ecliptic and near Leo's mouth
Breastplates: Perseus (Perseus used a breastplate given by Athena to defeat Medusa)
Breastplates: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Iron: Mars
Wings: Aquilla, the eagle
Horses: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Chariots: Auriga
Battle: no constellation or planet seems appropriate so left to second stage
Tails: Serpens Cauda, the tail of the serpent (NGC6633)

Very interesting..

Just thought I'd add here..

Revelation 12: 3. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.

When you study the zodiac, you find that these verses are actually referring to the constellations Hydra and Serpens. With his tail sweeping a third of the stars, what it really means here are constellations. If you look at the chart below, you will find that Hydra's tail actually encircles four constellations. That being the following:

1. Cancer.
2. Leo.
3. Virgo.
4. Libra.

And, when you put the whole thing in motion in the night sky, the motion of hydra truly does fling the constellations down to earth. I'll try to show that later... So why does Satan want these constellations moved out of the zodiac? I've heard because they have to do with the end times.



So four constellations being swept down to earth, is actually a third of the twelve constellations (Revelation 12:4). Part of the seven heads would be in the constellation Corona (crown) Borealis which consists of 7 stars (as part of the constellation Serpens). Stars Caput and Cauda are connected with ten stars (Revelation 12:3).

[Gman]

If we look at the second part of Revelation 12:4, it states the following.

4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born.

As we can clearly see in the zodiac, the constellation Serpens standing with it's head up and his crowns (Corona), awaiting the coming messiah at the feet of the woman (Virgo) the virgin Mary. Waiting to destroy Christ.



Now if we drop down to Revelation 12:7, we can clearly see the Archangel Michael fighting the serpent in the heavens (sky). This is depicted by the constellation Ophiuchus fighting the constellation Serpens.

7. And there was war in heaven (sky). Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

[Gman]

Revelation 14:14-16

The Harvest of the Earth

14. I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16. So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

This is clearly the constellation Bootes or the "coming one" with a sickle in his hand and a small crown on his head. This constellation also relates to Christ in his second coming where he will harvest the earth.

Also note that certain stars of this constellation are visible during the day so it could be depicted floating among the white clouds or evening sky.

[JB2011]

Hi

Yes, quite correct, in my view. But that is just the starting point. References to the planets are also present. The dragon is red because its first head is Mars. Then we have the seven crowns, seven heads and ten horns which is a time phrase: 7 years, 7 months and 10 days. There was an eclipse on 27 February 81AD. Seven years, seven months and 10 days later there is another eclipse on 3 October 88AD. Not surprisingly it is in Virgo, hence the woman with the twelve stars (11 other constellations + Ophiuchus) is Virgo herself. The eclipse happens at her feet as described. It is one of the seven observations John uses to measure the solar system.

It dovetails into Chapter 13 where the beast has ten crowns, seven heads and ten horns. Ten years, seven months (actually six and a bit because the seventh head is cut and hence incomplete) and ten days after the last eclipse there is another on 10 March 99AD.

Up to this point all his measurements have just been in the sky.

The harvest of the earth with sickles is John presenting the triangulation of the observations in the sky with the Earth. While it was OK to use right angle triangles in two dimensions, adding the third requires the use of arcs, hence the sickles.

John actually gives us a shortcut to working out the distances. I won't go into lengthy details, but if
A (alpha) is the sun (from the letter to PhiladelphiA)
ω (omega) is the position of the sun at the winter solstice (ie A = ω)
β (beta) is the pole (Balak, Balaam - there are two Bs as there are two poles)
λ (lamda) is LIbra, 90 degrees round from ω anticlockwise (from the letter to Laodicea)
π (pi) is 120 round from λ anticlockwise (from the letter to Pergamum)
ν (nu) is the position of the sun at the summer solstice, 15 degrees before π (the Nicolaitans: the people in Pergamum are in cahoots with them.)
o (omicron) is the moon (from the letter to Pergamum, πέργαμο; we have used π already)
δ (delta) is planet 1 and
υ (upsilon) is planet 2

then one can draw straight lines between the following points to create right angled triangles without having to worry about arcs and spherical mathematics:
Aβ, Aδ, ων
Aπ, oλ, λυ, (ων)
Thus, if the moon is in eclipse with the sun, o = A, it is one less variable to deal with. Do this for all the planet pair combinations and you can measure the distances between all the planets during that observation.

MarsSaturn.png (198.18 KiB) Viewed 5219 times

(10 October 79AD: chapters 8 and 9)

Do you recognise the combinations of greek letters? They are Abaddon and Apollyon. For "Destroyer", also read, "Deconstructor". We have also explained the meaning of Nicolaitan, another proper name that has been debated for centuries. This is why nobody has ever come up with a convincing explanation of where these names come from. John made them up to help his reader with their maths.

Babylon is βA, βυ, λων where β and A are still the sun and the pole, υ is the position on earth, and λων is the right angled triangle from the horizon due north, east and west on earth. While βυ is a straight line, λων is technically am arc (sickle) on earth and therefore one must treat βA as an arc as well (the second sickle). While this might seem daunting maths, John gives us a break and gives us a constant to rely on. It is the distance from Crater the Winepress to Pegasus the Horses' bridles: 1600 stadia or 1600 earth diameters.

And so the earth is harvested from its position in the centre of the solar system to somewhere in the wilderness.



Any suggestions what I should do with all this information? As you can see, I appear to have accounted consistently for what has kept people guessing for centuries.

Do I just leave it? There are a lot of people out there who are worrying as a result of the book and the existing doctrine. But then again, how does one change that? Should one try? If I do, I know it will be knocked back as the work of Satan. Yet it is all based on the maths that we learn at school and trust to be right. Has Satan deceived our basic understanding of triangles and circles all these centuries?

Literally damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I have the strongest feeling that God isn't happy about this book causing the angst it does and I am morally obliged to do something about it.

Approaching the clergy is fruitless. Approaching the academics is fruitless. What would you do?

Cheers

Oh, PS. Found this on the Internet. It is the Pope's throne with the signs of the zodiac on it. It is a painting owned by the Vatican.

1PopZod.jpg (99.18 KiB) Viewed 5219 times

[Gman]

The following consistently supports my conclusion, I believe, and will be the questions people will ask first:

New Jerusalem/New Earth: is a sphere (not a cube) with the sun at the centre and 12 pearly gates (constellations).
It is 12000 stadia wide.
12000 x diameter of earth (8000 miles) = 96 million miles, the distance from the earth to the sun.
There are no records of anyone having calculated this in the first century AD.

Well I've never heard of the New Jerusalem being a sphere, but it sounds pretty cool. How would that work however with the foundation stones? Also I'm not sure about spheres being biblical since everything we see in antiquity is foursquare.

Revelation 21:19

The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,

[Gman]

Up to this point all his measurements have just been in the sky.

The harvest of the earth with sickles is John presenting the triangulation of the observations in the sky with the Earth. While it was OK to use right angle triangles in two dimensions, adding the third requires the use of arcs, hence the sickles.

John actually gives us a shortcut to working out the distances. I won't go into lengthy details, but if
A (alpha) is the sun (from the letter to PhiladelphiA)
ω (omega) is the position of the sun at the winter solstice (ie A = ω)
β (beta) is the pole (Balak, Balaam - there are two Bs as there are two poles)
λ (lamda) is LIbra, 90 degrees round from ω anticlockwise (from the letter to Laodicea)
π (pi) is 120 round from λ anticlockwise (from the letter to Pergamum)
ν (nu) is the position of the sun at the summer solstice, 15 degrees before π (the Nicolaitans: the people in Pergamum are in cahoots with them.)
o (omicron) is the moon (from the letter to Pergamum, πέργαμο; we have used π already)
δ (delta) is planet 1 and
υ (upsilon) is planet 2

then one can draw straight lines between the following points to create right angled triangles without having to worry about arcs and spherical mathematics:
Aβ, Aδ, ων
Aπ, oλ, λυ, (ων)
Thus, if the moon is in eclipse with the sun, o = A, it is one less variable to deal with. Do this for all the planet pair combinations and you can measure the distances between all the planets during that observation.

Unfortunately I'm not sure what you are talking about here...

(10 October 79AD: chapters 8 and 9)

Do you recognise the combinations of greek letters? They are Abaddon and Apollyon. For "Destroyer", also read, "Deconstructor". We have also explained the meaning of Nicolaitan, another proper name that has been debated for centuries. This is why nobody has ever come up with a convincing explanation of where these names come from. John made them up to help his reader with their maths.

Babylon is βA, βυ, λων where β and A are still the sun and the pole, υ is the position on earth, and λων is the right angled triangle from the horizon due north, east and west on earth. While βυ is a straight line, λων is technically am arc (sickle) on earth and therefore one must treat βA as an arc as well (the second sickle). While this might seem daunting maths, John gives us a break and gives us a constant to rely on. It is the distance from Crater the Winepress to Pegasus the Horses' bridles: 1600 stadia or 1600 earth diameters.

And so the earth is harvested from its position in the centre of the solar system to somewhere in the wilderness.



Any suggestions what I should do with all this information? As you can see, I appear to have accounted consistently for what has kept people guessing for centuries.

Do I just leave it? There are a lot of people out there who are worrying as a result of the book and the existing doctrine. But then again, how does one change that? Should one try? If I do, I know it will be knocked back as the work of Satan. Yet it is all based on the maths that we learn at school and trust to be right. Has Satan deceived our basic understanding of triangles and circles all these centuries?

Literally damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I have the strongest feeling that God isn't happy about this book causing the angst it does and I am morally obliged to do something about it.

Approaching the clergy is fruitless. Approaching the academics is fruitless. What would you do?

Well the years I've been studying this stuff I do see a Biblical historical connection to it. It is fascinating stuff in my book. Whether it's all true or not is still a question however..

Just be aware that a lot of people are scared to talk about this...