jlay wrote:I read your post and link in another thread. If you could better communicate in lay terms your conclusions, that may be a big help. i am no astronomer.
Hi
I will do my best. I am no astronomer either, but have tried to apply myself to it as part of the process. I am a linguist (ie arts), not a scientist, but we are told to study to understand as much as we can about the Bible which sometimes means taking on things new and daunting.
Here goes...
First and foremost, the primary conclusion is that literally interpreting the book is mistaken and there is an embedded message which is no longer something that will transform heaven and earth as expected. That transformation happened 400 years ago, 1600 years later than John expected. We therefore need to assign the Book of Revelation to the annals of history and see it purely as an example of genius, the fruit of God's wisdom.
So what happened 400 years ago that transformed heaven and earth? We changed our view on the nature of the universe. The earth was no longer the centre of everything, the sun was. We moved from seeing the solar system as geocentric to heliocentric.
That is what John proves in his book and here, in a nutshell, are the reasons:
1. John of Patmos is a literate, educated man who writes in the style of the other "prophets" indicating he is well-read. He is numerate, he knows his gemstones, his apostles etc. Therefore one can conclude that he is something of a scholar.
2. In John's day there were seven classical planets: the sun, the moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. These planets pass through the zodiac constellations (Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn. There is a thirteenth constellation between Scorpio and Sagittarius. This is Ophiuchus. Note, this is astronomy, not astrology.) on a fixed path which is circular. The sun takes a year. The moon takes a lunar month. Saturn takes 30 years. Each planet will always be in one of the thirteen constellations. On any date in history one can identify where the planets were, are or will be. One can also determine the date if one knows where the planets were.
The seven stars in Chapter 1 are the seven angels which are the seven planets.
The seven lampstands are the seven churches which are the constellations they planets are in at a particular point in time.
The seven spirits sent out to the world are the seven days of the week which are named after the seven planets in most of Europe.
The seven angels in the seven churches are seven planets in seven constellations.
To be able to identify correctly the planets in the constellations as John would have seen them, we need his location on Earth. John gives us this as Patmos.
3. There is a lot of mythology attached to the planets. They are named in English after the Roman gods which each have a Greek equivalent. John was Greek. Homer wrote a series of poems about the Greek gods (the Homeric hymns) which John uses to reference the planets. Homer would have been required reading in John's day.
4. The seven letters to the seven churches (who were never the intended recipients of the book) each point to a planet/constellation combination. They serve as a dictionary of terms referencing Homer's poems and physical aspects of the constellations. Seven stars on a man's arm is the bow of Sagittarius, for example. The double-edged sword is the sword of Orion which almost touches the path the planets pass along when they are in Gemini.
1 Venus Sagittarius Ephesus
2 Jupiter Sagittarius Smyrna
3 Moon Gemini Pergamum
4 Mars Gemini Thyatira
5 Mercury Sagittarius Sardis
6 Sun Sagittarius Philadelphia
7 Saturn Libra Laodicea
5. From the letters to the churches we get seven planet/constellation pairs and can calculate the date. It is 21 December, the shortest day of the year, 98AD. This combination only repeats itself every several thousand years. This date fits with current thinking as to when the book was written.
Note how tidily the constellations are grouped. John has tried to keep it simple. He then gives another chance with the four horsemen which achieve the same results (see below).
6. John goes to heaven a sees twenty four elders wearing crowns. The elders represent time, the crowns represent a year. All the events in John's book happen over a period of 24 years.
7. There are then an additional six sets of observations doubly described in pairs (this is the double-sided book) all happening between 79AD and 103AD, including a number of eclipses.
-- Then there is a lot patience required to work through it all --
Finally:
8. John has calculated the size of the solar system from the positions of the planets during his observations. He has determined that the sun is at the centre. (The old heaven will pass; there will be a new heaven and earth)
He gives us quite a few useful numbers as well to help us along.
Supporting evidence
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The following consistently supports my conclusion, I believe, and will be the questions people will ask first:
New Jerusalem/New Earth: is a sphere (not a cube) with the sun at the centre and 12 pearly gates (constellations).
It is 12000 stadia wide.
12000 x diameter of earth (8000 miles) = 96 million miles, the distance from the earth to the sun.
There are no records of anyone having calculated this in the first century AD.
144,000 = 12 "tribes" x 12,000. 12,000 represents the earth, 12 represents the constellations through which the earth is passing, just like the other planets.
Babylon: the old "geocentric system" which will fall
Whore of Babylon: The Earth bedecked with the stars (jewels) believing that constellations like Crater the wine cup as well as the planets are circling it rather than the other way
Beast: The moon, whose orbit/distance is very difficult to calculate and fluctuates a great deal. This is why 616 has also appeared. The moon is never the same distance from the Earth.
Lamb: The moon as an accurate, dependable time recorder
The Second Beast with two horns like a lamb: The moon in two lunar days time which will confirm or deny John's calculations (hence Second Beast is Like a Lamb) and eventually breath life into his image of the Beast (forecast)
666 which one should calculate: a circle of area 666 has a diameter of 29.12. The distance from Earth to the moon is 29.12 x earth's diameter.
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition": The beast is the moon which is in the sky for part of the day and has gone below the horizon into perdition . It is one of the seven classical planets, but now that the earth is joining the other planets and the sun, it becomes the eighth.
24 elders: 24 years. The next eclipse is ushered in when they throw down their crowns
Crown: one solar year (one complete rotation of the sun through the constellations)
Horn: one solar day, a celestial hour (15 degrees, one twenty fourth of a circle)
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast": Each horn is a period of one hour literally. The moon is below the horizon (in perdition) for ten hours of the day.
Head/Mountain: one lunar month (a 360 degree rotation of the moon) = 24 celestial hours/a celestial day (360 degrees/a full circle). "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." - The woman is the Earth sitting in the middle of the orbits of the seven classical planets in the geocentric model.
King: a finite point in time. Hence the seven kings: five have fallen (past observations), one is (present observation), one is to come for a short space (one more finite observation to go)
Kingdom: a set of connected/sequential points in time (a "kingdom" exists through time and not just in space; usually consists of a number of "kings" who wear "crowns")
1260 days: 1260 days, literally. It is the time between two of the observations. The prophetic time period is not relevant in the Revelation of John.
42 months: 42 lunar months (<> 1260 days), hence the change of noun
The four horsemen:
White: Jupiter in Sagittarius (bow) next to the sun (crown)
Black: Saturn, god of agriculture (hence the wheat and barley) in Libra, the balance
Red: Mars in Gemini on Orion's sword
Pale: Venus (had power over animals etc) in Ophiuchus (death)
Hades: Mercury (escorted souls to Hades) always following Venus
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If you have any suggestions or can offer any help in simplifying this, it would be much appreciated. I know it takes some thought to process it all, but then it was never meant to be simple, otherwise we wouldn't be here now.
Thanks so much.
