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Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:58 pm
by dayage
Thank you Gman. Just had to take a break, but it is nice to get resharpened (Proverbs 27:17).
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:25 pm
by rstrats
willevjas,
re: “A friend of mine who isn't atheist or theist...”
That can't be - they have to be one or the other.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:33 pm
by Canuckster1127
rstrats wrote:willevjas,
re: “A friend of mine who isn't atheist or theist...”
That can't be - they have to be one or the other.
Technically, an agnostic would be neither.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:54 pm
by rstrats
Canuckster1127,
re: “Technically, an agnostic would be neither.”
Technically, an atheist or a theist could also be an agnostic. A theist is simply someone who believes in a deity or deities. An atheist is simply someone without a belief in a deity or deities. There is no other possibility - either you believe or you don't.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:45 pm
by DannyM
rstrats wrote:Technically, an atheist or a theist could also be an agnostic.
Incorrect.
rstrats wrote:A theist is simply someone who believes in a deity or deities.
Correct.
rstrats wrote:An atheist is simply someone without a belief in a deity or deities.
Incorrect. An atheist graduates from the "lack thereof" to a BELIEF that there is no god or gods.
rstrats wrote:There is no other possibility - either you believe or you don't.
True. But the atheist BELIEVES that there is no god or gods. The agnostic suspends any belief. We have three options: agnosticism STICKS (there is no "twist" involved here) at a lack of ANY belief; atheism and theism "TWIST" and COMMIT to a belief.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:22 pm
by rstrats
DannyM,
re: “... the atheist BELIEVES that there is no god or gods.”
That describes what is defined as a “strong” atheist. Someone who simply is without a belief is defined as a “weak” atheist.
re: “The agnostic suspends any belief.”
And that by definition makes them an atheist.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:44 pm
by DannyM
rstrats wrote:DannyM,
re: “... the atheist BELIEVES that there is no god or gods.”
That describes what is defined as a “strong” atheist. Someone who simply is without a belief is defined as a “weak” atheist.
re: “The agnostic suspends any belief.”
And that by definition makes them an atheist.
rstrats,
Look, if that's what you believe, then I have no problem with that as such. But when I see this kind of stuff it just boggles my mind. Your talk of a "strong" atheist being an ACTUAL atheist is just absurd in my opinion. Strong/weak can determine how "committed" the atheist is; but a "weak" atheist, if there IS such a thing, is nevertheless STILL an atheist.
Yes, the atheist SUSPENDS belief in a god or gods. That is true. But the atheist does not stay there- the atheist moves from this suspension of belief in a god or gods and commits to a BELIEF that there is no god or gods, thus moving AWAY from the position of a lack of any belief.
Your definitions are, in my opinion, typical of the post-modern, watered down nonsense which just does not wash if we are going to stay true to these terms and their connotations.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:08 pm
by rstrats
DannyM,
re: “Your talk of a 'strong' atheist being an ACTUAL atheist is just absurd...”
What???? What is absurd about it?
re: “... a 'weak' atheist, if there IS such a thing, is nevertheless STILL an atheist.”
Of course they are, That's what I've been saying.
re: “ ...the atheist does not stay there- the atheist moves from this suspension of belief in a god or gods and commits to a BELIEF that there is no god or gods.”
Some do and some don't. Either way, they are still atheists - without a belief in the existence of deities.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:12 pm
by Gman
rstrats wrote:DannyM,
re: “Your talk of a 'strong' atheist being an ACTUAL atheist is just absurd...”
What???? What is absurd about it?
That you have no evidence that there isn't a God....
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:34 pm
by DannyM
rstrats wrote:DannyM,re: “Your talk of a 'strong' atheist being an ACTUAL atheist is just absurd...”
What???? What is absurd about it?
re: “... a 'weak' atheist, if there IS such a thing, is nevertheless STILL an atheist.”
Of course they are, That's what I've been saying.
re: “ ...the atheist does not stay there- the atheist moves from this suspension of belief in a god or gods and commits to a BELIEF that there is no god or gods.”
Some do and some don't. Either way, they are still atheists - without a belief in the existence of deities.
So you're saying htat a "strong" atheist is an atheist but a "weak" atheist is not an atheist? Wow, waydda go champ!
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:24 pm
by dayage
Ok All,
Dr. Ross (Reasons to Believe) and Dr. Lisle (Answers in Genesis) will be debating the age of the universe on the Frank Pastore Show Wednesday 3/31/10 (5 PM, PT; 7 Central). Here is a link
http://www.kkla.com/LocalHosts/4/
Dr. Lisle had publicly agreed to debate Dr. Ross in on the Ankerberg show in front of professional Christian astronomers, but backed out. Dr. Danny Faulkner did follow through with the challenge. The group of astronomers is supposed to give their report on the evidence presented.
In front of a lay audience it is easy to say what you want, but in front of experts in the field, it's a different story.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:46 am
by rstrats
DannyM,
re: “So you're saying htat a... 'weak' atheist is not an atheist?”
Where on earth did you read that. I said just the opposite.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:28 pm
by dayage
The group of astronomers have given their report on the earlier Faulkner/Ross debate.
http://www.reasons.org/special-edition- ... e-universe
Don't forget the debate tonight that I mentioned above.
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:34 pm
by RickD
dayage, Are you saying that the debate isn't between Ross and Lisle? I was sooo looking forward to that. I'm not familiar with Faulkner. Is he with AIG?
Re: 13.7 billion yrs universe vs 4.3 billion earth yrs
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:50 pm
by dayage
Sorry if I confused anyone. The debate tonight is between Lisle and Ross. Dr. Faulkner is with The Institute For Creation Research (ICR).
I made a new Topic about these debates "The age of the universe."