zoegirl wrote:What you need to know, Manfer, is that it wasn't just death...it was a death that meant that Christ bore the wrath of God that was meant for us.....us!! The wrath of God for sin. On the cross, Christ cries out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me!" Our greatest need is to be reconciled with Christ....He paid the price in full.
Manfer84, please read the following
Romans 5:6, 7, “For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.”
Romans 5:8, 9, “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.”
Romans 5:10, 11, “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” NASB
Now Re-read jlay's and zoe's post:
jlay wrote:Well let's see. The King and creator of the universe, The UNIVERSE, gave up His throne, to become a man like you, live on this earth without once sinning, then was arrested, beaten, humiliated and died the death of a criminal to pay the penalty of YOUR sin, and the sins of the world, so that you, an otherwise insignificant being on a spec of dust in the known universe, could have an eternal relationship with this creator, and inherit all the promises of His Kingdom….Your problem? You don't know you are starving.
zoegirl wrote:What you need to know, Manfer, is that it wasn't just death...it was a death that meant that Christ bore the wrath of God that was meant for us.....us!! The wrath of God for sin. On the cross, Christ cries out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me!" Our greatest need is to be reconciled with Christ....He paid the price in full.
Let me add to what they are both saying. There is a reason why the wrath of God lays heavily upon humanity and it was what happened to Jesus that exposes this very reason.
Jesus was betrayed, lied about, put on trial, falsely accused, spat upon, mocked, beaten, a crown of sharp thrones crammed into his head, whipped, stripped naked, nails driven into his hands and feet, his clothes divided and gambled over, derided, laughed at, made a spectacle of, tempted to act unjustly, chortled with contempt…
What is being shown here? One, what humanity really thinks of God as well as how we treat each other. We may not physically crucify people but oh how we mock, belittle, betray, gamble for others possessions, how we put on trial, in our minds or with our word beat, scourge others.
And what would we do with God if he were to appear? Put him on trial if we could, are you not doing so? Demand him to perform something so you would believed? Mock him? Put him to death for all the unfairness of the world due to our actions — not his? How often have you derided God? Gamble away the clothes he wants to give you? How we strip him from our public square, whip him with our words, and jam a thorny crown of contemptuous contempt for being such an evil God for letting bad things happen. How we falsely accuse God, seeking words that will entrap him so we can say ah ah there is no God!
For that: “…
God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.” Romans 5:8-9
Can you see why the wrath of God lays heavily upon humanity? How many various ways and degrees do we treat others like how Jesus was treated? How many people do we let down, betray, lie about, swindle, tear down, put on trial, determine what value they are, demand from them, which in effect nullifying any good we think we may have?
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But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way...” Romans 3:5 ESV
Could you — would you lay down your life to expose what sin is in order to save a bunch of people who lie about you, put you on trial, falsely accuse you, spit upon you, mock you, beat you, place a crown of sharp thrones jammed into your head, whip, strip you naked, drive nails into your hands and feet, have your clothes and possessions divided and gambled over, deride and laughed at, be made a spectacle of, tempt you to act unjustly, chortled you with constant contempt — would you die for such a people in order to show them the error of their ways? To save them from wrath that is justified in coming?
“
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” Romans 5:10-11
To change a few internally out of such darkness, transform their lives and make them new creations? Adopt them as sons and daughters? I say a few because most want to remain in darkness thinking it be light. Would you do this for the few who would see the means by which the wrath of God is averted? Still permitting a choice to all, despite knowing many will use this very choice to always reject, mock, deride you - are you that just - equitious?
Would you do this for such an ungrateful people who only have contempt, doubt, and hate in their hearts for you?
John 3:16, 17, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.”
John 3:18, 19, "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20, 21, “For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." NKJV
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