Evidence for God from Science

Proinsias wrote:Thanks for the info. Just what I was looking for.

Hey Pro.. And not only animals. But your family too. Your wife and kid(s).. Will be there in heaven with you.

For eternity Pro... With no more suffering.. Can you believe that?

I'm thinking about starting a post soon on what heaven will be like according to the Bible.

There's a page on the main site that talks about that. :)

Gman wrote:Hey Pro.. And not only animals. But your family too. Your wife and kid(s).. Will be there in heaven with you.

For eternity Pro... With no more suffering.. Can you believe that?

I'm thinking about starting a post soon on what heaven will be like according to the Bible.

I can't believe that. In short the suffering is what makes it good. The more I go through with people the more I love them. The people who have put me through the most stressful times are those I feel closest to and love the most.

If I become a Christian does my family make it to heaven? wife, kids, animals, plants and whatnot? If those I care about make it to heaven and the things those people care make it to heaven and the things those people care about make it to heaven - we have a pretty much all inclusive heaven.

Proinsias wrote:

Gman wrote:Hey Pro.. And not only animals. But your family too. Your wife and kid(s).. Will be there in heaven with you.

For eternity Pro... With no more suffering.. Can you believe that?

I'm thinking about starting a post soon on what heaven will be like according to the Bible.

If I become a Christian does my family make it to heaven? wife, kids, animals, plants and whatnot? If those I care about make it to heaven and the things those people care make it to heaven and the things those people care about make it to heaven - we have a pretty much all inclusive heaven.

I think animals very well could for they are not morally capable beings and thus cannot be morally condemned.

There is only one passage I can think of in Scripture which can be used to support family being saved on behalf of another member after death, but I would not call such a correct interpretation and it is flimsy at best. Sorry Gman, I strongly disagree with you here.

Proinsias wrote:I can't believe that. In short the suffering is what makes it good. The more I go through with people the more I love them. The people who have put me through the most stressful times are those I feel closest to and love the most.

If I become a Christian does my family make it to heaven? wife, kids, animals, plants and whatnot? If those I care about make it to heaven and the things those people care make it to heaven and the things those people care about make it to heaven - we have a pretty much all inclusive heaven.

I hope you don't think that I'm trying to sell you heaven and how it all works. Like I was saying before, honestly I don't really know how it's all going to pan down. But as for me, I hope that I will see my family up there again... It's what keeps me going at times.

But remember this.. If someone doesn't make it to heaven, it's not God who sends them to hell. It's we who send ourselves to hell.. It's all a matter of choice, and God has to honor that..

Kurieuo wrote:I think animals very well could for they are not morally capable beings and thus cannot be morally condemned.

There is only one passage I can think of in Scripture which can be used to support family being saved on behalf of another member after death, but I would not call such a correct interpretation and it is flimsy at best. Sorry Gman, I strongly disagree with you here.

No problem.. You are referring to 1 Corinthians 7:14? It seems pretty clear that the Bible shows that the believer in a family can sanctify another member who is an unbeliever. But then again, I'm not sure how far I would base my faith on this as well or that it is an automatic bid to heaven or just sanctifies them. I'm not entirely sure..

Gman wrote:I hope you don't think that I'm trying to sell you heaven and how it all works.

Not at all, but I reckon it's pretty much impossible to try and tell someone about heaven and sound like you're not selling anything at all As soon as something sounds too good to be true people almost automatically assume they're being sold something not quite so good methinks.

Proinsias wrote:

Gman wrote:I hope you don't think that I'm trying to sell you heaven and how it all works.

Not at all, but I reckon it's pretty much impossible to try and tell someone about heaven and sound like you're not selling anything at all As soon as something sounds too good to be true people almost automatically assume they're being sold something not quite so good methinks.

I'm not sure heaven is necessarily sold to all once people realise they will be in the direct presence of God where He is sovereign over all.

To those who love God, we can only imagine how great such a thing would be. To those who don't love God, I can only imagine such would feel either fear, indifference or indignation/hatred at God being centre stage.

Kurieuo wrote: I'm not sure heaven is necessarily sold to all once people realise they will be in the direct presence of God where He is sovereign over all.

To those who love God, we can only imagine how great such a thing would be. To those who don't love God, I can only imagine such would feel either fear, indifference or indignation/hatred at God being centre stage.

My vote is for God.. I choose love over hate. If we value our lives and others, I wouldn't take a chance on the atheists beliefs.. Our lives are too short. Before you know it, it will be all over. And then we will say, boy I wish I would have invested in God. Sadly, many don't even ponder it..

I didn't read through this whole post, but I did look at a few responses. I don't think we should use quotes from prophesies (like Isaiah and Revelation), because many things mentioned in those passages are symbolic. So they don't necessarily imply that animals are in heaven.

While I wish differently, as an animal lover, I don't think our pets will be in heaven with us. Why? Well, this is probably open to discussion, but I don't believe that they have souls. They run on instinct and don't seem to think for themselves. They are incapable of choosing, following, or even understanding God.

Now, I do agree with Zoegirl that there will probably be animals in the new creation. And if this desire is stemming from a hope of seeing our deceased pets (as mine is), shouldn't we trust that being in God's presence will satisfy all of our desires? Having our animals with us in heaven pales in comparison to getting to live with our Creator and Father forever.

Since the Bible doesn't address this directly, I suppose I can't say. But I personally think that some animals serve the role of companionship on earth. But just like we might miss our atheist spouses or children in heaven, though they won't be there, we won't have our pets with us even though we may miss them.

To those of you thinking you might miss your friends/pets when you are in heaven, I'd like to ask why you think this. How do you know we will even remember this life after judgment? Scripture tells us that in heaven "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." (Rev. 21: 4) Certainly "missing" someone/thing denotes a longing or a sadness, and if heaven is supposed to be perfect, how can there be sadness? Or how can there be a longing for something unattainable?

As for me, I believe heaven is likely to be a "Garden of Eden" type place in that we will be caretakers of a beautiful world God has created just for us, and He will walk with us and talk with us regularly. This would probably include animals. Except this time everything will be perfect and we won't be able to mess it all up like last time.

For_Narniaaa wrote:While I wish differently, as an animal lover, I don't think our pets will be in heaven with us. Why? Well, this is probably open to discussion, but I don't believe that they have souls. They run on instinct and don't seem to think for themselves. They are incapable of choosing, following, or even understanding God.

I understand what you mean re: animals do not seem to think, but I disagree since there are many examples to the contrary which suggest they can think, problem solve, interact socially and the like. I think it is a hard claim to support, except with moral intuition. Even there, animals appear to be able to understand right and wrong through being taught by human beings even if it may not be intrinsic to their nature.

If animals do not have souls... then how do you explain why a dog whimpers when you kick it? Wouldn't this imply dogs have some immaterial substance or part which feels the "mental" phenomenal qualia, the what it is like, of the pain of the kick in the same way we would?

Ultimately the answer rests upon knowing several things:

1. Whether having a soul is what gets you into heaven (not saying that you musn't be redeemed, but whether animals will be accorded some place in the new earth.
2. Whether animals have a soul
3. Whether God will create the heaven and new earth with animals that we knew in our life time

I don't think we ever can answer these questions. Certainly animals have some intelligence, they certainly have emotions, and several species seem to have some level of self-awareness (dolphins, elephants, some dogs). These species all grieve over losing other members of their group and some show an understanding of the deceased animal.

Do I dearly wish that I will see my dog again? Of course, who among us with a pet doesn't? The link that we form between animals is astounding! Just thinking about losing her tears me apart (It's fitting, isn't it, that EVERY book about a dog and a boy is the most emotional book you can read about boys, as if that is the one *appropriate* reason for boys and men to cry...oh and the yearling as well....Sounder, Old Yeller, Where the Red Fern Grows, and many others... I know that a bit tangential, but ain't it so?) It's one of the few times I have seen my dad cry, when we have had to put down our dogs in the past.

I think it's quite fitting, as well, that several of the prison rehab programs that work astoundingly well are the ones that invovles prisoners with animal training and care. Dog training, horse training, it's as if there is a part of human nature that *must* interact with these wonderful creatures. And it's a shame (and I think part of the fall) that so much of these relationships are broken, from not realizing the importance to downright abuse, a part of us as humans is ripped asunder.

So maybe it's wishful thinking that we will see *our* pets...but don't think it's out of line to think that we will be able to form new and much more enriching relationships with animals in the new earth.

This is an old post, but one I think about alot so I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I remember researching this once, after one of my dogs passed away, he was such a sweet dog, loved me so dearly, was my protecter etc... Anyway, I remember someone saying the reason the bible doesn't mention whether animals go to heaven is because they don't need saving. We need saving. The bible is for us! We don't need to concern ourselves with things God will take care of, rather we need to worry about our own souls. I believe animals have souls, anyone who has loved a pet and looked into their eyes, there is a loving soul there, just not one that requires saving. I think they are automatically saved as they don't sin, they are innocent, and don't have, or need, a relationship with Christ.
The bible says our hearts' desires are fufilled in heaven, if your pet is a desire then I imagine you will see them in heaven. Also, there is no doubt animals are capable of loving, no doubt whatsoever, and God is love, so I don't imagine he considers the animals he has created as disposable. God is also assuredly just, I can't imagine him creating beings capable of loving and then extingushing them for no reason. He created us, and if we love Him we are saved, so why would a just God create a being that is capable of loving us, and not saving it as well? That is contradicting, and God is not.I doubt heaven lacks space for pets as I don't think it is even of that dimension.
There is a section of the scripture that mentions something like... Evil will go back into the dirt with the beasts where they shall remain dust, or something to that effect, but I believe that beasts could refer to something other than our pets. As far as not remembering our lives when we go to heaven, I read that earlier in this post, I believe scripture says we will be able to identify our loved ones...I could use some clarification there, if anyone knows where that can be referenced.