Evidence for God from Science

Kristoffer wrote:Actually secularism isn't about pushing any particular "spiritual high", so farm from pushed on. It Just happens to be that there is a STRONG correlation between amount of education and non-religiosity. So they are not teaching a world-view, it happens to be coincidental, having faith as a scientist can in some sense's be viewed as normal, but complaining about how universities "teach" secularism, is a joke. To be separate from god doesn't need to be taught it comes very easily.

Ps. Did you go to university, what degree/qualification did you get, can you verify your qualification, if not then do not presume to know what the demographics of such a system is actually like. The people are diverse and the teaching varied, It just so happens that at a university you have to "put up" with all sorts, I even had to deal with some annoying Evangelicals.

What Narnia4 said is correct, at least for this country. Christians are constantly ridiculed in the universities, by some or many professors, and by many or most students. If a professor is teaching that religion is bad, that religious people are not as bright (which you seem to go along with), then one is teaching secularism. I have degrees and I have had much contact with academics through work and friendship. And as far as your strong correlation between faith and education, I'd say that's a joke. It certainly wasn't true in the not-too-distant past, and from what I have seen and experienced with people, most are religious in some way or another.

Would you start being more civil here, and stop cutting people down? You consistently do this before knowing all the information. Despite your progress on some threads, a warning might be in order soon . . .

cslewislover wrote: If a professor is teaching that religion is bad, that religious people are not as bright (which you seem to go along with), then one is teaching secularism...It certainly wasn't true in the not-too-distant past, and from what I have seen and experienced with people, most are religious in some way or another.

This is all true and if a professor behaves like this he deserves a reprimand for disrespect and causing Uneccessary hatred then they need suspending, but it is not only Secular scientists who can make a mistake, a Religious one can be at fault too.

cslewislover wrote: Would you start being more civil here, and stop cutting people down? You consistently do this before knowing all the information. Despite your progress on some threads, a warning might be in order soon . . .

I am trying, it is just a bad habit I have which comes from my work, I do have to point out peoples flaws. It leaves me feeling quite sick actually. I destroy and wound(not literally) people to try and build them up. Its kind of in my Job Description but heh.

Too many problems with these statistics for me to be bothered to go on about, so luckily other people are mentioning them.

All I'm going to say about IQ is - Knowledge can be tested, Wisdom cannot.

Seeing as I and my friends have just finished High school and are in the University part of life, I suppose I could use them as an example for how your stats can end up how they are. We are all at our second year out of school.

5 Closest Athiest Friends:
1: At University studying computer Programming.
2: At University studying art and design (This girl can draw in ways I always wish I could )
3: At University studying Commerce.
4: At University studying Law and Commerce.
5: At University studying Journilism (Spelled right?).

5/5 in University. Only 1/5 of my Christian Counterparts are in University, so I suppose this makes us dumber

5 Closest Christian friends:
1: Own my own buisness with my wife (Young married Christian - Cliche'? ).
2: Went to University for 1st year, didn't like it so dropped out. Works as the accountant/office manager/tour guide/hunting guide at a mulit-million dollar safari now.
3: Went to a Christian Bible college for 1st year out of school, and is working his way to becoming a Pastor.
4: Works as a Civil engineer trainee, gets to travel the country for free to learn his job. Very hard job to get, only around 10 open up per year in the country.
5: Currently in University, and from what I know, is aiming at becoming a Charted Accountant.

Never trust the facts/statistics with anything. I know this from my buisness, that numbers can be skewed to say anything. For example, from my life stats above:

100% of Athiests make it to Uni. Only 20% of Christians do. Conclude that Christians are less intelligent as they do not go to Univerisity.
Or
0% of Athiests can make it in the real world without help from passing University courses first, where as 80% of Christians can. Conclude that Athiests are less intelligent as they require more assitance before entering life.

Of course I could bring up my stats from the school that I work with...over half of the teachers have masters degrees, several have multiple masters and one has her doctorate. All, of course, have undergrad degrees

In the number of churches that I have tried, overwhelmingly the participants went through universities and colleges with undergrad and grad degrees.

What is the famous saying about statistics? "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

That is a useless platitude, if you believe it then do not use statistics to justify anything. Statistical Analysis should not be shirked, however it is not the statistics that are prone to error, it is the analysis bringing bias into that, analysis can skew the results.

Now who is it who's taking things too seriously!

Yes, analysis is the key...Point is, one can make statistics support just about anything you want if someone has an ulterior motive.

zoegirl wrote:Yes, analysis is the key...Point is, one can make statistics support just about anything you want if someone has an ulterior motive.

Is leading people to Jesus, just such a Motive? Why do some people lie for Jesus?

Look I'm not trying to attack science or math or statistics....but the simple truth is that statistics can be manipulated by the people who want to manipulate them. Politicians, scientists, religion, market analysis....all driven by people who can, if weak, use them improperly. People are, after all, sinners...

Stop looking for offense here, it was a genial poke at statistics....

what does genial meant?

Genial means friendly, and who "lies" for Jesus?

Fundie's.

Well, I'm not sure about your response. I was being too conversational in my response before, perhaps. You had said that some Christians lie for Jesus. So who does that?

People like the man(so called "reverend fred phelps") who made the "god hates Sweden" website.

Kristoffer wrote:People like the man(so called "reverend fred phelps") who made the "god hates Sweden" website.

He is not a man of Christ, so he cannot lie for Christ. Fred Phelps is a sick twisted man, and should not be called a Christian.

Hear, hear.