Evidence for God from Science

Thank you for your reply BW, I was going to mention a couple of things. First off about suicide, I didn't know if you were acting like I was contemplating suicide or not, but currently, I'm doing pretty well, I can handle sharp objects well, I have NO desire to end my life currently, and quite the contrary I want to live so much that I want to get my life and theology stright so I can live the rest of my life with some sense of peace. But the main reason why I brought up the issue of suicide was that because of current world events and events that deal with our climate, I'm currently very scared and nervous that if for some reason our climate goes out of control (either by God allowing it or the possibility that there is no God *God forbid*) and people will be forced to either starve to death or committ suicide, and thus, that's the inspiration for my question regarding what would happen to a Christian who committs suicide, well that in the fact that I know a couple of people who I thought were Christians wo actually did committ suicide one of them was a pastor by the way. But anyway, for more on my concerns and questions about the climate you can check this thread

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =6&t=34477



Also on the question of sin severity, I was previously under the impression that different sins had differnt amounts of punishment added to them after a person is in hell after death. For example, a serial killing satanist would recieve more punishment than per se a nice mormon or a person who called themselves a Christian but denied the Trinity. Hitler would recieve more punishment than Tammy Faye Baker basically. That's the impression that I was under, but I'm more than intellectually open to the possibility of all people experiencing the same amount of punishment in hell.


Also on the rewards in heaven, you were pointing out Christ's parable about the talents. Ok, what specifically out of talents or abilities earn us reward in heaven? Do we get it by simply being good and doing our best at what we do in our occupations? Or do we get rewarded by how we use our talents and abilities for winning souls or doing some kind of ministry related work? Or do we get rewarded by how we are able to conform ourseleves to be like Christ and follow his principles and commands? I'm just trying to make things more clear and turn these gray areas into black or white areas. Let's see, if I can think of anything else I'll post it here in just a bit. Thanks again for your time. God bless.

When bad things happen to Christians it is never God punishing you.

Truth, how do you reconcile that with Annanias and Saphira in Acts? Not to mention several other hints that bad things were coming froming God to those who did not walk worthy?
Certainly I would agree that bad things are not in and of themselves a punishment. But, to say never, does not comply with scripture.

And even if it were right, you could also say that according to Christian theism, you must follow the party line or burn in Hell forever. Fantastic "freedom of choice".

Smiley, you'd do well to head the reason B.W. laid out. Again, you are saying truth is determined by how well you like the options. Do you not see the error in this? You don't like the idea that you can choose heaven or hell, so you reject it.
I guess if a doctor came to you and said take this treatment and live, reject it and die, that you would mock the doctor and say, "what kind of choice is that." And as you sit and withered unto death, you'd rant on about the narrow mindedness of the doctor.
Your arguments sound a lot more like a person frustrated that they just can't have their way, and die as worm food.

B.W - your entire argument hinges on this idea that naturalists use force and coercion to shove their opinions down other people's throats. I'm sure this has happened. And I'm sure it still happens today. Christians have done the same. But it would be an extreme hasty generalization to say that atheistic naturalism necessarily leaves you no choice but to follow them or be mocked, ridiculed and persecuted.

I am, again, not a naturalist or atheist. However, I have never experienced any of these horrors you seem to be talking about, even though I'm one hundred percent open when expressing my worldview.

Furthermore, you talk about how Christians use reason to persuade others. And again, the same can be said about the vast majority of contemporary atheistic naturalists.

jlay wrote: Smiley, you'd do well to head the reason B.W. laid out. Again, you are saying truth is determined by how well you like the options.

Jlay, I'm sick and tired of these utterly baseless strawman attacks. Perhaps clicking on my profile to check what my religious beliefs are would be helpful to clear this confusion.

jlay wrote:Truth, how do you reconcile that with Annanias and Saphira in Acts? Not to mention several other hints that bad things were coming froming God to those who did not walk worthy?
Certainly I would agree that bad things are not in and of themselves a punishment. But, to say never, does not comply with scripture.

Interesting point Jlay, from that how would you answer my question,

"When bad things happen to Christians, how do we find out whether or not it is from A. satan B. God as a means of punishment, C God using this as a way to test our faith, endurance, or some other quality or virtue, D. God as means of doing the greater good or for his glory, or E. none of the above ie just a random incident with the blame being merely on the person or no one?"

Thanks for your time.

Hey cubeus19,

I got a little sidetracked answer you more fully shortly.

Please note that often when I write - I also write to a wider audience who may happen to come accross the thread. Concerning suicide - that is a difficult one to answer as the answer may wrongly influence someone (Did not mean to infer you at all). There is only one unpardonable sin and that involves blaspheme of the Holy Spirit — that is not self inflicted death.

Christians can be trapped into thinking there is no other way for various reasons, biological, spiritual oppression, emotional turmoil, etc… But thru Christ one can overcome. Christ does have counselors that he can lead a person too as well as lead one to certain medications if needed, or set a person free outright. Many of us know Christians who gave up like this and knowing how things get better in due time, it's best to help the brethren going thru this discover some solace.

Romans 12:15
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Let's see another additional question I was wanting to ask and add to this question thread has to do with some sins being worse than others or all sin being equal. The question is, will there be different levels of punishment in hell or will all sinners get equal punishment in hell? Because I know that any sin no matter how small, without forgiviness, condemns us to hell for eternity. But would a person who got their doctrine wrong on the trinity for example get the same amount of punishment in hell that a communist dictator or serial killer gets in hell? More specifically, would Hitler and Tammy Faye Baker get the same punishment in hell or would they get different levels or forms of punishment in hell? Just curious.

cubeus19 wrote:Let's see another additional question I was wanting to ask and add to this question thread has to do with some sins being worse than others or all sin being equal. The question is, will there be different levels of punishment in hell or will all sinners get equal punishment in hell? Because I know that any sin no matter how small, without forgiveness, condemns us to hell for eternity. But would a person who got their doctrine wrong on the trinity for example get the same amount of punishment in hell that a communist dictator or serial killer gets in hell? More specifically, would Hitler and Tammy Faye Baker get the same punishment in hell or would they get different levels or forms of punishment in hell? Just curious.

An example to help answer this question is found in Ez 32:19-30 where it describes different levels of various types of recompense in hell, some lesser - some more. Basic bible doctrine on this subject basically that there will be different levels of recompense based on - what one sows they reap - and God will render sinners according each to their deeds.

As for sin:

All sin is equal in God's sight - it brings forth ruin by attempting to manipulate God to act contrary to himself, plus etc and etc, as already discussed and for that one is banishment away from God in a confined area as the only course of action for a just God to do.

The principle brought out in Job 26:5-6 states that hell uncovers a person true nature - that is the nature of recompense. The person is tormented by that uncovering: seeing themselves as they truly are, what they really traded away, and being banished away from a truly just God, as well as seeing how they exploit God's character and nature as license to sin, etc. Little sins are exposed for what they do, corrupt and bring one into doing larger sins.

As for your example, a communist dictator or serial killer receives what they sowed, each of these two types people is different as Job 34:11, Jeremiah 17:10, and Jeremiah 32:19 states and therefore each is dealt with justly as the text describes. So each of the two, in essence, would be receiving differing degrees of recompense but sin remains equal with all other sin due to sin's effects.

Does this make sense?
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