Kristoffer wrote:
Yes but what about people who are not christians? Is it okay to persecute them and try to forcibly convert them? Also what about children? I think that they should be kept safe(from any religion) until they are old enough to make up their own mind.
No, it is not okay to persecute or forcibly convert anyone. It is impossible to forcibly convert someone to Christianity anyway, because they must voluntarily choose to believe and trust in Jesus Christ to become a true Christian.
Iif you do not teach children truth, how can they properly make up their mind?
You must be assuming that there is no truth in any religion.
God instructed us to teach the truth of His word to our children. Should we disobey Him?
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. " 1 Corinthians 13:1-2
you do not teach children truth, how can they properly make up their mind?
Well, what was going through my mind was. Let them know about various different religions and give them the skills they would need to find out what is true to them.
You must be assuming that there is no truth in any religion.
Oh no, quite the opposite. There is a lot of truth to be had, just the "holy" books seem to be pretty dubious.
Oh no, quite the opposite. There is a lot of truth to be had, just the "holy" books seem to be pretty dubious.
And what is your source and guide for truth?
Last edited by truthman on Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. " 1 Corinthians 13:1-2
Larry the Viking wrote:
I currently see no way around this implication that all creatures were herbivores before the Fall of Man. Can I get some help understanding this?
You could just say that it is, GOD FORBID: wrong, seriously when a science textbook gets it wrong, it is corrected in future editions, this doesn't happen for the bible though does it? So just take a pen and cross it out. It works for me.
If you haven't gathered by now, we believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. We may debate the meaning of certain passages but this is not an option for us.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
Oh no, quite the opposite. There is a lot of truth to be had, just the "holy" books seem to be pretty dubious.
And what is your source and guide for truth?
Well it used to be science and scientific truth, but now i'm not so certain that it is the only kind around.
If you haven't gathered by now, we believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. We may debate the meaning of certain passages but this is not an option for us.
Even the bits saying that slavery is ok? I guess its kind of easy for you to find the genocide's that god does perfectly acceptable too then? What exactly is wrong with Questioning THAT stuff? If you speak for everyone in saying that 100% of the bible is infallible then I do not think I want to be here and if that is the official Christian position that all that nasty stuff is OKAY somehow just because the book says god says it is ok then I would be wasting my time attempting to become one.
Who exactly is feeding you your opinions? Or do you honestly expect me to think you come to them by yourself? Correcting it, Is an option. Why shouldn't you be free to take your own actions?
If you haven't gathered by now, we believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. We may debate the meaning of certain passages but this is not an option for us.
Even the bits saying that slavery is ok? I guess its kind of easy for you to find the genocide's that god does perfectly acceptable too then? What exactly is wrong with Questioning THAT stuff? If you speak for everyone in saying that 100% of the bible is infallible then I do not think I want to be here and if that is the official Christian position that all that nasty stuff is OKAY somehow just because the book says god says it is ok then I would be wasting my time attempting to become one.
Who exactly is feeding you your opinions? Or do you honestly expect me to think you come to them by yourself? Correcting it, Is an option. Why shouldn't you be free to take your own actions?
Sorry, sometimes you just have to question.
It is quite alright to question, we are after all called to test our faith. So instead of recoiling in horror at certain things in the Bible you find offensive, you should be asking questions and doing the necessary research why those things were allowed to happen. There are reasons for everything Kristoffer. I will go so far as to say not only is the Bible the infallible Word of God but also that there are no coincidences in the Bible. Everything, EVERYTHING that happened happened for a reason, even if the intention is sometimes hidden. We just need to look for those intentions and understand them better rather than shy away from them because somehow they threaten our perceived sense of morality (and there's the rub, as if we are the source of that sense of morality).
You think it's easy being convinced of Christianity? It is not, it requires hard work. It requires reading, researching, studying. It requires the use of reason and logic and not to fall victim to preconceived notions of what a religion ought to be from human perspectives.
Yes, the Bible IS the infallible Word of God IN ITS ENTIRETY. Accept that and start working to see why or take the easy way out, convince yourself that it's not worth your time and quit. Keep in mind just one thing though, if we are right in our claims then quitting just might prove to be the hardest thing you will have to deal with, forever.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
I have been your champion here for awhile now. I will put forth here and now that if you are truly curious and want to know more, then please ask us instead of immediately judging something as silly or stupid or wrong.
If you would like to start a thread on slavery in the Bible, then by all means do so. You should also be checking these things out on the main website. Either way, now is the time to challenge yourself. If the Bible is truly as silly and stupid as you think (or at least the parts of it) then no matter what questions you put to us it will not sway your mind.
Most of the common criticisms of the Bible are ridiculously easy to explore if one wants an answer....so...do you want an answer?
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
Oh no, quite the opposite. There is a lot of truth to be had, just the "holy" books seem to be pretty dubious.
And what is your source and guide for truth?
Well it used to be science and scientific truth, but now i'm not so certain that it is the only kind around.
I commend you for your honesty. The search for truth is SO important.
If you look into philosophy, the basic branch is called epistemology: the study of truth and knowledge. It is quite interesting that in some 4000 years of study, the popular philosophy of today is existentialism with post-modernism on the rise. Existentialism is basically a belief that we have no real idea of what truth is and how we can know it, so we will just embrace what we know and what works. This is the approach of most who are totally into empirical science.
Post-modernism goes so far as to insist that there is no absolute truth period. Everyone creates his own reality and whatever you believe is true is true for you, however ridiculous it may be.
I will skip the reasoning here for the sake of time and space (we can start another thread on the topic) but the conclusion is that knowledge and truth must begin with an infinite-personal Creator. From there, we realize and accept that the Bible was communicated directly from the Creator through humans in a way that it was kept from error, so it is the best source for truth we can find.
You raise a common objection in reference to God telling the Israelites to kill people. The answer is that He had good reason. Again, to discuss this in detail it should be another topic, but we can sum it up this way. God's purpose for creating the world and humans was for us to become His eternal children. This earth is temporary, kind of like the womb. Some people have been so evil that they were a threat to the whole process and God had to kill them or have them killed. That was the case of the Canaanites.
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. " 1 Corinthians 13:1-2
Kristoffer wrote:
Even the bits saying that slavery is ok? I guess its kind of easy for you to find the genocide's that god does perfectly acceptable too then? What exactly is wrong with Questioning THAT stuff? If you speak for everyone in saying that 100% of the bible is infallible then I do not think I want to be here and if that is the official Christian position that all that nasty stuff is OKAY somehow just because the book says god says it is ok then I would be wasting my time attempting to become one.
Who exactly is feeding you your opinions? Or do you honestly expect me to think you come to them by yourself? Correcting it, Is an option. Why shouldn't you be free to take your own actions?
Sorry, sometimes you just have to question.
It's ok to question... We are SUPPOSE to question things. The Bible is infallible and when you study it more you will find that to be true..
Kris... Would you like to debate slavery in the Bible? Bring it on...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
So just take a pen and cross it out. It works for me. 
