Evidence for God from Science

I suspect from your response that many if not most prayers you hear in church you don't approve of as they are not prayers right out of scripture ? Is this what you are saying ?

It really is surprising to hear someone call this 'mumbo jumbo'. I support the idea of praying as we see prayers in scripture but I don't see any fixed way of talking to God established in the scriptures. We certainly do not have all the detailed occurrences that Jesus prayed to the Father or that His followers prayed.

I believe #1 is the same as praying for God to draw them to Himself as we know is His will. This is praying the will of God. How this is considered 'witchcraft' is amazing.

Although these 'tips' get into the 'how to's' when talking to God about the lost, I believe God is listening more for the intent of the heart behind it all. These tips, to me, are a way of expressing -

1) a recognition that God must work on the heart of man for man to turn to Him.
2) that Christians will live their lives in such a way as a witness that they cannot be ignored
3) that the Holy Spirit convicts them of their sin
4) that they will be stirred in their heart to seek God in the scriptures
5) that the truth about Jesus rises above all the false teachings that abound about Him
6) that Satan's hold on their thinking be broken
7) that God will work in their hearts through whatever means - music, nature, whatever to lead them toward God.

All of these are ways of expressing to God how concerned we are and although God has His own ways of working with each person, I think He is listening for what is behind such praying.

Perhaps you prefer this example by Dave Hintz -

1. John 6:44 - Pray that the Father will draw them to Himself.
2. Romans 10:14-15 — Pray that they will hear a clear presentation of the Gospel.
3. 1 Corinthians 2:14 — Pray that they will be able to understand spiritual truth.
4. 2 Corinthians 3:14-15 — Pray that God will lift the veil from their hearts so that they might understand spiritual truth.
5. 2 Corinthians 4:3 — Pray that God might prevent Satan from blinding them from the gospel of glory.
6. Matthew 13:3-8 — Pray that their hearts will be like the good soil, that the Word when preached to them will sink in
7. Romans 16:18 — Pray that false teachers will not deceive them with spiritual lies
8. 2 Corinthians 7:10 — Pray that they will have sorrow over their sin. Mourn in such a way that they will turn to God.
9. Matthew 5:4 — Pray that they will mourn over their sin.

Sudsy,

You can attempt to defend this, but I see it as goobleygook plain and simple. Not all prayer has to be verbatum out of the bible. But it should harmonize with what is in the bible. It should be consistent with what we know about prayer and about God. We are given these guidlines within the scriptures.

The reality is all the things you site from Hintz are not prayers.

I also have no doubt that God listens to the intent of the heart. That is no excuse for continuing in error. For example, if I am praying that God will overthrow the will power of another person....
For example. "God I pray that you make them stop sinning." Or, "God, change their mind about......."
I know this is not biblically sound.


How bout this.
Thank you God, that you have already revealed yourself to everyone. Thank you Lord that you have already drawn all men unto yourself. Thank you father that we already have the witness of the Holy Spirit to bear out the truth of who you are. Thank you Lord that you have already defeated the works of the enemy. Thank you that you are already working in nature, in song, in art to reveal yourself to man. Thank you that everything is already accomplished in Christ. Thank you Lord that you will guide us and strengthen us as we yield our lives to be used of you in the work that you have prepared for us since before the foundations of the World. Lord, let us be partakers in your works on this earth. Thank you that we have the full armor of God at our disposal. Amen!

We don't need to ask God for what we already have. We need to claim it. There are times where we are asking God, because we don't know His will in a situation. But the Bible tells us clearly what God's will is in these matters. So asking may be, "God reveal to me ways in which I might be an effective witness to this person."
We have to understand when dealing with the lost that Christ has already died for them. God isn't holding back. God has already done everything. We need to pray for ourselves, that the eyes of our hearts may be enlightened. That there is a power working in us, that is the same one that raised Christ from the dead. And so, we can be participate in giving dead men life.

If you think that prayer is something where we ask God to alter the thoughts or decisions of another person, then you will find that you and I are at a disagreement about prayer. I think we would both agree that we are pro-prayer. I am just for prayer that is in and of the will of God. If I see something that is obviously not, I'll point it out.

Other suggestions for prayer -

http://www.wholeperson-counseling.org/p ... y-usv.html