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Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:40 pm
by RickD
To fart, or not to fart: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous flatulence,
Or to take arms against a stench of gasses,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;to fart:
No more; and by a fart to say we end
The fart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That fart is heir to, 'tis a constipation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;to fart
To sleep: perchance to pass gas: ay, there's the rub;
For in that fart of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us gas: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long flatulence;
For who would bear the rips and scorns of farts,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised farts, the law's delay,
The insolence of sphincter releases and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy gasses,
When he himself might his quietus make(silent but deadly)
With a bare bottom? who would fart-els bear,
To grunt and sweat under a struggling fart,
But that the dread of something after death by farts,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those farts we have
Than fly to others that whose stench we know not of?
Thus our sense of smell does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale odor of broccoli,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their nostrils turn awry,
And lose the name of action. -Fart you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my farts remember'd.
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:46 pm
by MarcusOfLycia
That... made my night
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:04 pm
by J.Davis
Gman wrote:Thanks J.Davis... That was very brave of you. But I'm not trying to be funny here...
Ok here is my problem with the fruit God provided was perfect, that it had no impurities.
You were serious huh? Sorry about that Gman, I misunderstood your intentions due to the nature and format of your post.
I have never heard the argument that digestive waste or gas could be associated with the fall. It’s a serious argument huh?
But in any case, I don’t support the YEC view so I’ll leave the matter for those that do.
However, I see no reason for God to be limited to foods that produce flatulence. I mean science is science but we are talking about a God that can make fire that does not burn or walk on water, He removed limbs from snakes, women who once gave birth with ease, latter did so in great pain and humans who would have lived forever now die. So, God created our beautiful women with full knowledge that they did not have to give birth in great pain but He would cause us to suffer as a result of eating the very foods he provided? I see no logic in this, it sounds like more of a curse to me. The physical laws of the universe were in full operation but that does not limit God to creating things that could only function one way as a result of living under those physical laws.
Women give birth in great pain, humans no longer have it garden of Eden level easy and we die now. Did God not see these things as negative, as punishment? Why then should we say that flatulence should be perceived as positive when God himself acknowledges (through word and action) that some things are not the way he would have preferred? There is no evidence that God could not have produced perfect fruit, free of impurities and capable of being completely consumed and leaving no byproducts from any living creature who ate the fruit. Surely God did not come down in the cool of the day to be met by the unspeakable horrors produced by the digestive system of various earth dwelling species. No one wants to smell that if they can choose not to. The awful smell and or sound that is ejected from one’s rear end need not be seen as positive when God clearly saw fit to cruse mankind with death and various forms of suffering.
No, seriously, I had no intentions of debating this matter…LOL!!! But this thread was fun, reading RickD’s post, Zoegirl’s and your own Gman. I think the fart argument might be difficult to defend against YEC especially because perfection is a matter of perspective. But I think your post (and all the Mods here) are awesome in general.
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:07 pm
by Gman
RickD wrote:Smelly feces is a result of a bad diet. I worked with a really obese, unhealthy man who has the worst smelling sh!ts I've ever had the displeasure of smelling. The worse the smell, the unhealthier the diet. I would guess that may be the same case for flatulence as well. So, if Adam and Eve were eating only fruits and veggies, they probably didn't have a problem with stinky farts. That's just my opinion. So, imo, YEC lives to fart, I mean fight another day.
Yes, however, I've heard that some fruits such as apples or anything that has a skin have an outer skin that is made of cellulose that the body can't digest without the help of bacteria... I can attest to grapes too.. So no, Adam and Eve would not be immune from it... And we are not just talking about the smell either. We are also talking about the embarrassment..
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:16 pm
by B. W.
Gman wrote:RickD wrote:Smelly feces is a result of a bad diet. I worked with a really obese, unhealthy man who has the worst smelling sh!ts I've ever had the displeasure of smelling. The worse the smell, the unhealthier the diet. I would guess that may be the same case for flatulence as well. So, if Adam and Eve were eating only fruits and veggies, they probably didn't have a problem with stinky farts. That's just my opinion. So, imo, YEC lives to fart, I mean fight another day.
Yes, however, I've heard that some fruits such as apples or anything that has a skin have an outer skin that is made of cellulose that the body can't digest without the help of bacteria... I can attest to grapes too.. So no, Adam and Eve would not be immune from it... And we are not just talking about the smell either. We are also talking about the embarrassment..
Write thesis on this and get it - this is what wins the noble prize!
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Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:29 pm
by Gman
B. W. wrote:Gman wrote:RickD wrote:Smelly feces is a result of a bad diet. I worked with a really obese, unhealthy man who has the worst smelling sh!ts I've ever had the displeasure of smelling. The worse the smell, the unhealthier the diet. I would guess that may be the same case for flatulence as well. So, if Adam and Eve were eating only fruits and veggies, they probably didn't have a problem with stinky farts. That's just my opinion. So, imo, YEC lives to fart, I mean fight another day.
Yes, however, I've heard that some fruits such as apples or anything that has a skin have an outer skin that is made of cellulose that the body can't digest without the help of bacteria... I can attest to grapes too.. So no, Adam and Eve would not be immune from it... And we are not just talking about the smell either. We are also talking about the embarrassment..
Write thesis on this and get it - this is what wins the noble prize!
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Well.. Now I'm not even sure why I even started all this...
Just that flatulence would probably not have been created in a "perfect" world. But if you are an OEC, it's all part of the cycle..
Re: Farting in the garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:37 am
by DannyM
Gman, isn't it the most natural thing for the body to discharge after digestion? How would the body behaving like a body should behave be a sin? Forgive me if I have missed the point.
Re: Farting in the garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:34 am
by RickD
DannyM wrote:Gman, isn't it the most natural thing for the body to discharge after digestion? How would the body behaving like a body should behave be a sin? Forgive me if I have missed the point.
Danny, It wouldn't. Gman is just trying to make the point that if one holds to a YEC worldview, then God's creation was "perfect"(without error). OEC just holds to the view that creation is "perfect"(best for this temporary creation).
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:40 am
by RickD
Gman wrote:RickD wrote:Smelly feces is a result of a bad diet. I worked with a really obese, unhealthy man who has the worst smelling sh!ts I've ever had the displeasure of smelling. The worse the smell, the unhealthier the diet. I would guess that may be the same case for flatulence as well. So, if Adam and Eve were eating only fruits and veggies, they probably didn't have a problem with stinky farts. That's just my opinion. So, imo, YEC lives to fart, I mean fight another day.
Yes, however, I've heard that some fruits such as apples or anything that has a skin have an outer skin that is made of cellulose that the body can't digest without the help of bacteria... I can attest to grapes too.. So no, Adam and Eve would not be immune from it... And we are not just talking about the smell either. We are also talking about the embarrassment..
Gman, I'm not sure I buy into your argument. If Adam and Eve walked around naked before they sinned, and weren't embarrassed, I'm not sure they would be embarrassed from tooting.
Re: Farting in the garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:59 am
by DannyM
Thanks Rick. I agree that creation was simply fit for purpose, not perfect. But it seems to me that imperfection is being assumed here when bodily functions do not amount to anything like a malfunction. I don't see how farting is a negation of a properly functioning body.
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:02 am
by Canuckster1127
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:07 am
by Gman
RickD wrote:
Gman, I'm not sure I buy into your argument. If Adam and Eve walked around naked before they sinned, and weren't embarrassed, I'm not sure they would be embarrassed from tooting.
Ok but I bet if you went to a nudist colony, and someone in the midst farted, you would get laughs or even looks for that matter. Bottom line it is not an appropriate thing to do in public..
Re: Farting in the garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:10 am
by Gman
DannyM wrote:Gman, isn't it the most natural thing for the body to discharge after digestion? How would the body behaving like a body should behave be a sin? Forgive me if I have missed the point.
It's just the grossness of the act. It's really not appropriate... Like in a movie theater or even in a space suit.
Re: Farting in the Garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:15 am
by Gman
Nice..
Re: Farting in the garden
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:19 am
by Gman
RickD wrote:DannyM wrote:Gman, isn't it the most natural thing for the body to discharge after digestion? How would the body behaving like a body should behave be a sin? Forgive me if I have missed the point.
Danny, It wouldn't. Gman is just trying to make the point that if one holds to a YEC worldview, then God's creation was "perfect"(without error). OEC just holds to the view that creation is "perfect"(best for this temporary creation).
Yes, and it points to other things too.. Like cancers and other aliments or diseases or even genetic mutations. It's just a thing that is going to happen in a natural world...
Not that God wanted any of this.. Including farting. Would you really want to make your creation fart? No... But there are certain natural laws that cannot be ignored when you live in a physical environment..
Get it?