Hi Cet-To!CeT-To wrote:Hey J.davis so in what type of love does God love himself in his triuneness? Unless i'm mistaking ( which i could be lol) a lot of God's love described in the bible is agape . I'm not asking how he can agape others outside of Himself but rather how can the Father agape the Son and Holy Spirit & vice versa ?
I think I understand where your confusion is coming from.
The word agapé, just like all words, can have several meanings depending on the context. The word can mean Love, goodwill and charity and it comes from the word agapaó meaning love ,( i.e. Affection or benevolence). The older versions of the bible (such as the King James) translated the word agapé into charity depending on the context. The newer versions of the bible replace the word charity with the word love and rephrase the sentence.
For example…
The bible that is used on this forum (The New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update) words 1 Peter 4:8 as follows…
1 Peter 4:8 Above all, keep loving (<agapé) one another earnestly, since love (<agapé) covers a multitude of sins.
And here is the King James version…
1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity (<agapé) among yourselves: for charity (<agapé) shall cover the multitude of sins.
In both cases, because of the context, the Greek word agapé is translated to mean that we should have longsuffering loving-kindness for others (the Greek meaning for charity).
Now this is 1 John 4:8...
1 John 4:8 The one who does not love (<agapaó) does not know God, for God is love (<agapé). (The New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update)
1 John 4:8 He that loveth (<agapaó) not knoweth not God; for God is love (<agapé). (King James)
As you see here, the Greek word agapé is translated to love for both. Because of the context the word means that love is one of God’s characteristics, not that He is loving himself (showing charity to himself).
Concerning scriptures such as John 3:35 "The Father loves (<agapaó) the Son and has given all things into His hand.
The word for love here comes from the Greek word agapaó meaning to love (same as phileó). So God has affection for himself, as stated in my pervious post, this does not contradict anything.
So the bible is clear concerning what the word love means in relation to God.
You said…
The phrase you provided (“God is love” which comes form 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16) does not mean that God is loving himself in a sacrificial (giving up something of value) manner.CeT-To wrote:Hey Rick, sorry i didn't specify more as i was going to wait as more people responded but i might as well do it now. It is concerning to God's love and the Trinity. An argument that i've herd that is been used to show that the triune God is the only possible God that there could be because since it says in the scripture "God is love " which i presume is the agape type of love which is a sort of love that gives and sacrifices. Yet my question is IF God is not triune then how can God be love? since before the creation there was only Him.
Also, how can agape be actualised before the creation? Since even tho God is Father, Son & Holy Spirit it feels like there no need to "give" and "sacrifice" inside the triuness of God since they are essentially God ( perfect in every way)
Is it required that "God is love" to BE God?
John 3:35 and scriptures like it, do not mean that God loves himself in a sacrificial (giving up something of value) manner.
Agapé has three meanings and only one of them could mean to love in a sacrificial (suffering) manner and that is charity. That is most likely where you are getting (or someone is suggesting) that God’s love is defined as a long suffering, sacrificial type of love (and it is, it's the type of love He has for mankind...but not for Himself).
Here is a thorough analyses of the word agapé (charity or love) done by David Reagan.
And in Greek, the word goodwill means: delight or good pleasure (Strong’s 2107. Eudokia)David Reagan wrote:Charity is the love toward others that suffers long with them and is kind (1 Corinthians 13:4), that does not behave unseemly, seek to get its own way, or is easily provoked (1 Corinthians 13:5); that rejoices not in the iniquity of others (1 Corinthians 13:6); that bears, believes, hopes, and endures (1 Corinthians 13:7). It is the grace that proves the believer to be mature in his faith and practice. May the Lord give us all more charity.
David Reagan
Charity Or Love The Way Of Charity
So, in no case does agapé mean what you are suggesting in relation to God, nor are there any contradictions concerning this matter. Again, God is not loving himself with a long suffering, sacrificial type of love (Charity), He has no reason to because he has not sinned against himself nor does any part of him hold something against any other part. God has Godlike affection for himself….. And, as stated earlier, Inherent love (as defined by the word) is a must for a being to be the one and only I Am/Jesus.
Agapé (Strong’s 26)
love, goodwill
Original Word: άγάπη
Transliteration: agapé
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-ah'-pay)
Short Definition: charity
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from agapaó
Definition
love, goodwill
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
charity, love.
From agapao; love, i.e. Affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast --(feast of) charity(-ably), dear, love.