Evidence for God from Science

I mentioned it is well funded, the I mentioned what we do with our funding (refer to africa).

ok, I just never heard anyone say that.

Are you accusing him of having to much pride or something?

No accusations here. Just asking because of the way you worded it, that's all.

I recently had family members leave a church. The main reasons why they left were the control issues, and the pride the pastor has. Just wonderin if it's common. No offense meant to you or your pastor.

Just hymn singing

No electric guitars
No electric keyboards

DannyM wrote:Just hymn singing

No electric guitars
No electric keyboards

why do you say that?

Grew up in a Lutheran church, so organ and pre-1900 hymns (the hymnal was published in 1941). In the 1970s, the praise choruses that were in common use among charismatic churches; in the 1990s and 2000s we were at a charismatic church that used music similar to what Integrity/Hosanna was putting out. Now we're at a Baptist church that uses music along the lines of Hillsong United. Our current church has 4 services, 2 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.

I thoroughly appreciate the poetry-of-the-heart and music of decades and centuries past. I really do. But how appropriate is it for the church, which is supposed to reach out to current culture, to be using music that is tied to the culture of a century ago or several centuries ago? I should add that I think the answer, "It shouldn't," is a bit simplistic.

PeteSinCA wrote:Grew up in a Lutheran church, so organ and pre-1900 hymns (the hymnal was published in 1941). In the 1970s, the praise choruses that were in common use among charismatic churches; in the 1990s and 2000s we were at a charismatic church that used music similar to what Integrity/Hosanna was putting out. Now we're at a Baptist church that uses music along the lines of Hillsong United. Our current church has 4 services, 2 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.

I thoroughly appreciate the poetry-of-the-heart and music of decades and centuries past. I really do. But how appropriate is it for the church, which is supposed to reach out to current culture, to be using music that is tied to the culture of a century ago or several centuries ago? I should add that I think the answer, "It shouldn't," is a bit simplistic.

Why can't you have a blend of everything, I am still young but I still enjoy the old hyms along with the more current music.


Dan

I thoroughly agree that it need not be an either-or choice. Throwing out some thoughts ...

Many/most church congregations are a mixture: children & youth, young college, career & marrieds, middle-aged, older; new believers through those who have been believers for many decades. For younger new believers (little or no experience with churches), older hymns are likely something culturally unfamiliar. For older believers, especially those who have been in the church their entire lives (like my late Dad), new music with electric instruments and drums may similarly be culturally unfamiliar. Seen in the abstract, worship is not culturally dependent. But culturally unfamiliar forms/media can distract real-life worshipers.

Will a worship service with very mixed musical styles work for all? Or be distracting?

If a congregation has multiple services, each with a distinct style, what works to maintain unity and prevent the development of sub-congregations within a congregation? And what of a congregation large enough to have significant age and experience diversity, but not large enough to sustain logistically and numerically multiple-styled services?

On a personal level, our current church has chosen to focus toward newer, supposedly more young-oriented, worship music. I say supposedly, because Mrs. S in CA and I don't fit the older-age--older music tendency. We both enjoyed the "Jesus Music" of the 1970s and have followed that contemporary styling in our personal preferences.

PeteSinCA wrote:I thoroughly agree that it need not be an either-or choice. Throwing out some thoughts ...

Many/most church congregations are a mixture: children & youth, young college, career & marrieds, middle-aged, older; new believers through those who have been believers for many decades. For younger new believers (little or no experience with churches), older hymns are likely something culturally unfamiliar. For older believers, especially those who have been in the church their entire lives (like my late Dad), new music with electric instruments and drums may similarly be culturally unfamiliar. Seen in the abstract, worship is not culturally dependent. But culturally unfamiliar forms/media can distract real-life worshipers.

Will a worship service with very mixed musical styles work for all? Or be distracting?

If a congregation has multiple services, each with a distinct style, what works to maintain unity and prevent the development of sub-congregations within a congregation? And what of a congregation large enough to have significant age and experience diversity, but not large enough to sustain logistically and numerically multiple-styled services?

On a personal level, our current church has chosen to focus toward newer, supposedly more young-oriented, worship music. I say supposedly, because Mrs. S in CA and I don't fit the older-age--older music tendency. We both enjoyed the "Jesus Music" of the 1970s and have followed that contemporary styling in our personal preferences.

Our Church is small and I play guitar (acoustic) in the band, we have a congregation of about 90-100 and we always play a mix of new and old. We have drums, baby grand piano, electric bass guitar, electric guitar (for quiet lead breaks, nothing over the top) and usually one acoustic playing. It is a nice mix of new and old and works really well and we don't find it distracting at all, we structure our service music to fit the theme of the day's sermon and also structure it to fit with the framework of the actual service itself. Everyone young and old is always commenting on how good the music is and we haven't had any complaints so far, we let the holy spirit guide us with which songs we are to play and it just seems to work real well.


Dan

Dancing with the ark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y7KrBWs3vY

In another country music in church makes a smile on face. But in Poland? It so lofty, slowly. No guitars, no happy people. It's so sad.

Is there anywhere in the bible where music is bad?

30 minute prayers op? You might want to direct him to Matthew 6.

One of my personal pet peeves is when leaders feign prayer and start sermonizing rather than sincerely talking to God.

"Oh God please open our hearts and teach us to give a little more as we pass the giving plate. Show us the meaning of real sacrifice, etc. Etc."

Happens in almost every church I've physically been to. Not usually about money though. It bothers me because it's not prayer and a poor example to your flock.

neo-x wrote:I once met a pastor who claimed that all music is from the devil that when we play music in church we are actually honoring the devil. make sure you do not have a nut like the one, I met.

I saw a video where John MacArthur plainly stated he would do away with music in church services. Reason was it took away from the message. He didn't claim it was from the devil.

Read somewhere that Calvin stopped the music but later allowed singing without any instruments. Not sure how accurate that is.

2 Samuel 6:5 Meanwhile, David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the LORD with all kinds of instruments made of fir wood, and with lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets and cymbals.

1 Chronicles 6:32 They were ministering with music before the dwelling place of the tabernacle of meeting, until Solomon had built the house of the Lord in Jerusalem, and they served in their office according to their order.

There are a lot more references to music in the Bible especially the OT. Ancient Israel was a noisy place at times. Search Youtube for examples of Orthodox Jewish services which are very different than Christian churches.

I'm not a fan of rock or hip-hop/rap in the church, preferring the majesty (to my ears) of a good pipe organ and a motivated congregation. On the flip side I'm not a fan of real slow singing like Amish or Dutch Reformed which sounds like drawn out moaning and groaning. I know the DR believe the slower you sing the more reverent it is.

JButler wrote: I saw a video where John MacArthur plainly stated he would do away with music in church services. Reason was it took away from the message him.

FIFY.

He also praisesthis hymn, while still making the case for Cessationism and rejecting the idea of God actually engaging with believers directly:
In the Garden
I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The Son of God discloses.

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that He gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

I’d stay in the garden with Him
Though the night around me be falling,
But He bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling. The guy is all over the map, he regularly contradicts himself and the gospel, especially when it comes to the gospel. So take what he says with a grain of...no, just ignore what that man says.

I dont think music in church is against biblical principles (except death metal)

But if I see a guitar on stage, I take the aisle seat. I am not listening to a guy whose only venue is church. I mean, if he was any good, he'd accept payment. Plus I go to church to listen and contemplate, not have my ears ring. I just. Dont. Like. Live music.