Evidence for God from Science

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:Do you like MegaDeaths music ? Isnt their music message one of rebellion, personal destruction, hopelessness, apathy toward what is good and right , dissent of God and Godly values....and the like ? Besides that, doesnt a few guys bellowing and growling at you in virtually non-understanable words as a conglomeration of sheer painful noise plays....a sure recipe for a subsequent headache ?

Well, firstly it's Megadeth not Megadeath; an anti-war name, not pro-death theme in case you were wondering.

It really depends on what album you listen to, and even more so the era, and specific song. Like most people, Dave isn't one dimensional and the content of the songs vary greatly.
For instance a major theme surrounding Megadeth's music has been politics and anti-war, long before it became "popular" to do so, and unlike many other metal bands he also sings about his personal relationships.

Dave's history is a chequered one. He was into the occult and wrote and sang some questionable songs surrounding that, but that is not what Megadeth represents; the range of the music is much more diverse than that.

Dave actually became a Christian around 2005; he was on a self-destructive path, in and out of rehab (like 20 times), and at one point in rehab after everything had else failed, with his marriage on the rocks, he gave his life to God.
So now there are certain songs from his older albums that he just doesn't sing anymore.

Not sure if his conversion rubbed off on his band mates but his friend (and bassist of Megadeth) David Ellefson is actually studying to become a minister right now I hang out at the Megadeth boards quite a bit and one of the interviews David done even inspired a guy on the boards to pick up the Bible.
This is the interview (I've started it at about the point where he talks about his studies). Note that this in an interview with David by Bravewords and the musical intro is not by Megadeth (if you watch from the beginning).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1DY#t=454s

I understand that it's tough not to judge a band called Megadeth and plays heavy metal but you really need to be careful and take a closer look before doing so.

As a fellow Christian Dave's stance and music has actually inspired me and helped me through some tough times. I was raised on metal it's something I relate to; and when I pick up a guitar and write songs that's how I express it, but that doesn't mean it's anti-God or bad, it's just an expression.

Trust me, you might not see it, but Dave is doing good things for Christianity. He's not the perfect model of a Christian (like many), but he interacts with a lot of people that otherwise wouldn't be exposed to the faith, and I think changes a lot of people's perceptions who think that Christians are all just stuck up, finger-pointers and judgemental.
He's just a human being with a past who found Jesus.

Their previous album is called Endgame with the title song relates to the New World Order. The current one is Th1rt3en.

Dave's autobiography is a very interesting read and I would definitely recommend it.
Mustaine

CallMeDave wrote:Since Daves conversion in circa 2005, does the Band play any songs with lyrics highlighting /endorsing any form of immorality or rebellion to authority ? Thanks.

Since Daves conversion in circa 2005, does the Band play any songs with lyrics highlighting /endorsing any form of immorality or rebellion to authority ? Thanks

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:Since Daves conversion in circa 2005, does the Band play any songs with lyrics highlighting /endorsing any form of immorality or rebellion to authority ? Thanks.

That's an awfully loaded question, you'll have to elaborate a little.

Define immorality?
Define authority (ie. government, parents, education, etc.?)?

jlay wrote:

Since Daves conversion in circa 2005, does the Band play any songs with lyrics highlighting /endorsing any form of immorality or rebellion to authority ? Thanks

JLAY : You mean like eating with tax collectors and sinners?

CallMeDave wrote:Its not meant to be 'a loaded question' , but, The Bible says that we can know a Person by their Fruit and thats how we can determine if they are the real deal or wolves in sheeps clothing . Immorality , etc...using The Bible as a pretext, would be singing (endorsing) such things as : Casual sex, using women , degrading women , stealing, etc...
Rebellion to Authority thru song might include such things as : Degrading law enforcement , willfully disobeying ones parents moral teachings, putting down School or higher education, moral and ethical systems , and generally....the promotion of destructive lifestyles and habits which are harmful to the individual ( getting very drunk, taking illegal drugs, experimenting with life threatening things, etc...)

In summary : Wantonly singing about the very sins that Christ died for and to set us free from.

There are alot of wolves in sheeps clothing today , especially in the Music Scene . As Christians, we are called to come out of these things and not to imitate the World and its philosophies , but to be set free from them in CHrist . Does this make sense ?

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:Its not meant to be 'a loaded question' , but, The Bible says that we can know a Person by their Fruit and thats how we can determine if they are the real deal or wolves in sheeps clothing . Immorality , etc...using The Bible as a pretext, would be singing (endorsing) such things as : Casual sex, using women , degrading women , stealing, etc...
Rebellion to Authority thru song might include such things as : Degrading law enforcement , willfully disobeying ones parents moral teachings, putting down School or higher education, moral and ethical systems , and generally....the promotion of destructive lifestyles and habits which are harmful to the individual ( getting very drunk, taking illegal drugs, experimenting with life threatening things, etc...)

Nah what you're referring to sounds like the rantings of immature teenage bands. Not Megadeth's style at all.

In summary : Wantonly singing about the very sins that Christ died for and to set us free from.

There are alot of wolves in sheeps clothing today , especially in the Music Scene . As Christians, we are called to come out of these things and not to imitate the World and its philosophies , but to be set free from them in CHrist . Does this make sense ?

Yeah makes sense. But remember we are actually a part of this world though, and there are a lot of things that are good and bad with the world -- and so we comment on it, try to change it, and some express that through music. For instance I'm writing a song about the absurdity of war; it surrounds a guy in a tank and another in a plane and the journey each undergoes, starting off with a feeling of power and domination over others, to dying a fiery death inside their respective craft. A somewhat grisly scenario but that's the absurdity and gruesome nature of war.

If Dave is a "wolf in sheep's clothing", he's the worst one I've seen yet ; he's as outspoken as they come, and has voiced his opinion on gay marriage and a number of other "politically incorrect" topics.

CallMeDave wrote:He may very well have experienced a genuine true conversion to Christ ; all im saying is that the FRUIT from a Person or a Music Band gives a much clearer picture --- Id like to examine this issue closer, so, could i ask you to please give me 2 or 3 popular songs theyve performed within the last year or two , so i can pull up the lyrics and see what kind of message is being sold ? Thanks.

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:He may very well have experienced a genuine true conversion to Christ ; all im saying is that the FRUIT from a Person or a Music Band gives a much clearer picture --- Id like to examine this issue closer, so, could i ask you to please give me 2 or 3 popular songs theyve performed within the last year or two , so i can pull up the lyrics and see what kind of message is being sold ? Thanks.

Sure, will find a couple for you.
Remember though they're not a Christian band, there are just two members who happen to be Christian (big difference), and one who happens to be the primary song writer.

CallMeDave wrote:If you were a committed Christian who loved what Christ had done for you in offering up his own life for your many personal sins....would you keep on pumping out the same music that you had before with its destructive lyric messages ? Would you for the sake of CD sales and Concert sales, keep on with the same typical immoral and destructive messages of the World which highlight the very sins that your personal Saviour died for ? It doesnt matter if a Band has 2 out of 4 Christians in it. The whole point of Salvation is to FREE us from sins power and to have a noticable changed heart and mind and a strong desire for the things of God, and not Satan anymore. But, im willing to examine the lyrics of songs performed since 2005 after the Leaders proclaimed conversion to Christ to see what kind of message they bring.

Stu wrote:To any of the mods.

Could you perhaps move and start a new thread from say post 14 onwards called "Music", as we seem to have hijacked the thread..

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:If you were a committed Christian who loved what Christ had done for you in offering up his own life for your many personal sins....would you keep on pumping out the same music that you had before with its destructive lyric messages ? Would you for the sake of CD sales and Concert sales, keep on with the same typical immoral and destructive messages of the World which highlight the very sins that your personal Saviour died for ? It doesnt matter if a Band has 2 out of 4 Christians in it. The whole point of Salvation is to FREE us from sins power and to have a noticable changed heart and mind and a strong desire for the things of God, and not Satan anymore. But, im willing to examine the lyrics of songs performed since 2005 after the Leaders proclaimed conversion to Christ to see what kind of message they bring.

Remember what I said earlier; there are songs that Dave doesn't play anymore.

Keep in mind this hasn't gone down well in some quarters.
But just as you say, what is the point in making such a life-altering commitment if you continue to play songs that fly in the face of those new beliefs -- this has been Dave's very own stance, and why he refuses to play those particular songs. And there are even some that might seem fairly innocuous, even to someone like myself, but Dave has stuck to his guns, and you gotta give the guy kudos for that.

So below are 5 of the more popular songs released by Megadeth from their latest album.

You can find the lyrics for the songs below here on this page for Th1irt3en.
Public Enemy No.1 -- Song written about Al Capone.
We the People -- Lyrics should explain this one..
New World Order -- Title speaks for itself
Black Swan -- Fantastic song written before the movie (and not related) about Dave's past.
13 -- Song about Dave's life; amazing, you might enjoy this one.

You can find all the albums here on their site. Just click on the relevant album and then each individual song to bring up the lyrics for that particular song.
Have fun Any questions, fire away

Stu wrote:Dave Mustaine from Megadeth, no contest
He even had to relearn to play the guitar after he lost all movement in his left hand.