Evidence for God from Science

I would add to everyone's comments here this point and principle from Hebrews 9:27 - after one dies comes Judgment...

In Genesis 2:17 God told Adam in the day you eat from the tree of knowledge, Adam would Die-Death or surely die. The Hebrew uses the word death twice here – Die-Die.. or die in death or a living death continually... Or you can say face – two deaths Judgment and final sentencing. Please note the phrase in Rev 20:14, Rev 21:8, and Rev 2:11 and explore the dual use of die used in Gen 2:17 and Gen 3:4.

This type of death is the kind that usher one to face the judgment of God for a final reckoning, and future final sentencing of absolute living banishment from God’s presence forever (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

Jesus bore that wrathful judgment for us and paid that kind of death penalty in full so that the judgment of God is fulfilled thru Christ for those that believe (note: John 3:15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 36)

Does this make sense added to what others have written here?

What comes to mind is that so few today understand what sin is, or taught what it really is, so that one no longer understands the reason for necessary judgment and sentencing to eternal banishment from God’s presence.

In this mortal life, we have a type of partial abandonment from God, but he is near to those who will call upon him, and look at the state of the world as it is and how we all contribute to its state. If all are allowed into heaven, unchanged, unchecked, we would turn heaven into a wreck … -
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Not really Bryan.. i feel like everyone who has commented has unintentionally not given me a direct answer to my question.

Sin results eternal separation from God.

Jesus took our sins on himself.

Yet Jesus is with the Father now.

How is Jesus able to be with the Father with our sins on Him?

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How was Jesus able to pay in full for our sins if our sins result in eternal separation from God? Wouldn't Jesus have to take our place in eternal separation to have paid for our sins?

^ That! is the question im asking to which i still think i haven't gotten an answer.

So could please some one answer it or show me where i've misunderstood something or if i haven't noticed a point.

God bless

CeT-To wrote: Not really Bryan.. i feel like everyone who has commented has unintentionally not given me a direct answer to my question.

Sin results eternal separation from God.

Jesus took our sins on himself.

Yet Jesus is with the Father now.

How is Jesus able to be with the Father with our sins on Him?

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How was Jesus able to pay in full for our sins if our sins result in eternal separation from God? Wouldn't Jesus have to take our place in eternal separation to have paid for our sins?

^ That! is the question im asking to which i still think i haven't gotten an answer.

So could please some one answer it or show me where i've misunderstood something or if i haven't noticed a point.

God bless

Answer - Jesus was sinless - without sin - so how could sin possibly stay on him that was placed on him by humanity?

Answer - the Ressurection -- 1 Co 15:42 - 1 Peter 1:3

For the other answers...

CeT-To wrote:How was Jesus able to pay in full for our sins if our sins result in eternal separation from God? Wouldn't Jesus have to take our place in eternal separation to have paid for our sins?

I'll get back to you on this...
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Ok so our sins couldn't stay on Jesus for the fact that He hadn't committed any sins - so where did our sins go then cause it seems Jesus wasn't punished for our sins since our sins cause eternal separation from God.

If our sins couldn't stay on Jesus how could He be a sacrifice ? Cause then the punishment wasn't really fulfilled.

Edit: oh dang i didn't see the last thing you wrote Bryan about getting back to me about the question, sorry about this post then but ill leave this here for others

God bless

If our sins couldn't stay on Jesus how could He be a sacrifice ? Cause then the punishment wasn't really fulfilled.

Really? According to who? God says that Christ's sacrifice satisfied the sin debt. You are saying it doesn't. What you state above isn't a proof.

Jesus DEATH satisfied the sin debt. Once for all. If Jesus had stayed dead, you might have a point. But He didn't. He rose. Which I pointed out earlier. Jesus rose from the dead, which is the victory. Death could not hold Him. If Jesus were condemned to Hell, then He wouldn't be righteous, nor would He be Lord. Nor could He rise from the dead, and thus we would still be without hope.
"God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.” Act 2:24

We need to understand that the righteousness of Christ was not erased. It stands eternal.
-1 Peter 2:22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."
-1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

We must be careful to note that the bible doesn't use terms like "eternal seperation." I think what is happening is you may be taking modern phrases and attempting to reconcile them, as opposed to relying on the scripture. General example: "Ask Jesus in to your heart." The bible doesn't say this. So, I wonder if some of your questions are based on proper exegesis.

What does the bible say?
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
-Romans 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--
-Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
-Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

Hebrews illustrates that Jesus was not just the Lamb, but also the High Priest. So, our sins don't go anywhere. They are gone.

CeT-To wrote:Ok so our sins couldn't stay on Jesus for the fact that He hadn't committed any sins - so where did our sins go then cause it seems Jesus wasn't punished for our sins since our sins cause eternal separation from God.

If our sins couldn't stay on Jesus how could He be a sacrifice ? Cause then the punishment wasn't really fulfilled.

Edit: oh dang i didn't see the last thing you wrote Bryan about getting back to me about the question, sorry about this post then but ill leave this here for others

God bless

Let me add to Jlay comments to answer the last part of your question:

...It appears that it is from 2 Co 5:21 that is causing your question. English translations have difficulty here with this verse. What the text in essence is saying is that Jesus vicariously became the sin bearer of the collective sin of all men past, present, and future. That is why you read verses such as behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world type scriptures such as John 1:29, 36 and Rev 7:10, 17c.

This refers to the act of how the priest of old symbolically laid their hands upon the sacrificial lamb to impart all sins of the people on the lamb to be slain so one can enter the Holy of Holies. The lamb, itself had no sin but symbolically it was imparted to it as an objective lesson point out something that the Messiah was to fulfill.

Ancient Hebrew was written in pictograph forms. The word EL is the singular generic term for God. Its picture graph was an Ox head and a Shepherd Staff/yoke. The Ox symbolized the strongest of strength and thus God being strongest of all was spell with an Ox head and a Staff/yoke. This, for the ancient Hebrews meant that God desired for his people to be yoked to his strength and when Jesus said this in Matthew 11:28, 29, 30, the Jewish people who heard him understood what he meant as he revealed that he was EL.

Next, as you read Leviticus, you’ll come across the offering of a Bull. This symbolized the OX head. In other words God the Father doing what is necessary to yoke humanity justly back to himself – that if he could, he would die and pay the death-death penalty in full. But God cannot die so he will send the Staff/Yoke from his Majestic Tri-Pluralness to come as a man as well as God to reconcile those who are his to become re-yoke (reconciled) back to God. He did this so He can Shepherd his people. Please note the symbolism in John 10:11, 12, 13, 14… that revert back to the symbols used in ancient Hebrew written language and the OT Law of Moses for Passover / atonement for this purpose.

The blood of physical bulls, lambs, doves can never atone but they did symbolize the Father (Ox Head-Bull), the Son (Lamb), and the Holy Ghost (Dove) all involved restoring humanity – reconciling humanity – through a just sacrifice that only God himself can do for it to be just. The ancient sacrifices were symbolic pointing toward the Godhead and how he would reconcile – re-yoke the lost and shepherd his people to himself again by paying the death penalty for human beings who place their trust in His sacrifice.

For the ancient Hebrew PictureGraph symbolized these things in the spelling of EL, Elohim, YHWH. Unfortunately, we are rarely taught these truths from the bible language and symbols. Jesus did not have sin, nor did he become a block of sin filled flesh, He bore the sins same as the Ox, Lamb, Dove bore a representation of imparted sin during the animal sacrifice period, all as an offering pointing out that God’s own innocence will save humanity by His own act of grace…

Now read this:

2 Co 5:17-21, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin (bearer) for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” NKJV

Note: Other ancient peoples made the Ox into a false god, so please don’t get confused and think the Hebrews borrowed this from Babylonian pantheon as these civilizations corrupted the symbols of written language to stop people from finding God cementing them to tempt, test God by their pervert acts.
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So is the answer this? Jesus had our sins on him on the cross but our sins on him could not stay because in actuality he was not sinful, he had not committed any sins - so the sins were negated because he was holy and not sinful even tho he held ours but not any more.

So i see how the Cross paid for the physical punishment we were meant to receive since Jesus died.

But what i am having trouble grasping is how he paid for our punishment spiritually.

Could someone possibly construct an analogy?

Lol like ones ive heard is that Jesus paid the Judge ( Father) the fine and now we are set free and not in jail.

CeT-To wrote:So is the answer this? Jesus had our sins on him on the cross but our sins on him could not stay because in actuality he was not sinful, he had not committed any sins - so the sins were negated because he was holy and not sinful even tho he held ours but not any more.

So i see how the Cross paid for the physical punishment we were meant to receive since Jesus died.

But what i am having trouble grasping is how he paid for our punishment spiritually.

Could someone possibly construct an analogy?

Lol like ones ive heard is that Jesus paid the Judge ( Father) the fine and now we are set free and not in jail.

The book of Hebrews sheds light on this: Hebrews cchapter 5, Hebrews chapter 7, and then Hebrews chapter 9 which sums it all up on the spiritual level...note Hebrews 9:12, 24, 25, 26c
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B. W. wrote:

CeT-To wrote:So is the answer this? Jesus had our sins on him on the cross but our sins on him could not stay because in actuality he was not sinful, he had not committed any sins - so the sins were negated because he was holy and not sinful even tho he held ours but not any more.

So i see how the Cross paid for the physical punishment we were meant to receive since Jesus died.

But what i am having trouble grasping is how he paid for our punishment spiritually.

Could someone possibly construct an analogy?

Lol like ones ive heard is that Jesus paid the Judge ( Father) the fine and now we are set free and not in jail.

The book of Hebrews sheds light on this: Hebrews cchapter 5, Hebrews chapter 7, and then Hebrews chapter 9 which sums it all up on the spiritual level...note Hebrews 9:12, 24, 25, 26c
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Thanx Bryan. I will meditate on these chapters and verses

God bless Brother