Evidence for God from Science

jlay wrote:Seraph,
Christians who act all high and mighty certainly do a great disservice to the name of Christ.

I see watcha did there.

DannyM wrote:It's always lovely to get such a tirade from a 'liberal' Christian. Confidence in Christ, confidence in one's security, these things are quite often looked down upon by the so-called liberal side of Christianity. Trouble is, the 'all-inclusive' 'liberal' Christians have no comfort for you; they won't tell you you're lost.

I know where my money is when spotting the smug ones ...

Well I don't try to conform to the image of a "liberal" Christian. And this is why I hate the fact that tone of voice isn't transmitted through posts. That wasn't supposed to be a tirade, I'm sorry it looked like one Danny. I wasn't aiming that at you and wasn't saying you were guilty of what I was describing, it was against a much more extreme version of the "Us vs Them" idea. That said, I still stand by the content of that post. If that makes me too "liberal", fine. I don't equate "liberal" with "bad".

Gman wrote:

DannyM wrote:We are not the same. The disparities between us are glaring. It is Christian or other. Come to Christ, those of you being called!

Actually Christianity is just another form of Judaism. Jesus or Yeshua (his hebrew name) was a Jew as well as all the other first followers of Him. It wasn't really until some 30 years later that Gentiles starting moving into it with all their pagan holidays and stuff.. No offense.

Therefore you can still practice Judaism with Yeshua as the head like me and not give up your Jewish roots. In fact under Yeshua Judaism is augmented.

I respectfully disagree. Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. Once you study Judaism you will see the differences.

Seraph wrote:Isn't it possible to encourage people to come to Christ without creating a Christian vs Everybody Else paradigm?

I fear that one reason the younger generation has more people that reject Christianity than previous ones in both the US and Europe is because they view Christians as people who like to feel smug and secure in their superior status over everyone else. It's an opinion I've heard many times. Perhaps the number of conversions to Christianity would rise if we focused on excercising humility in our worldview.

Well I respect Christians and others who believe in Jesus. But I do not believe in Jesus.

Johnny916 wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. Once you study Judaism you will see the differences.

It's ok to disagree Johnny, but once you analyze it, I believe that Christianity is Judaism in it's purest form. It's truly the religion of love.

So.. What differences do you see? Just asking.

Gman wrote:

Johnny916 wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. Once you study Judaism you will see the differences.

It's ok to disagree Johnny, but once you analyze it, I believe that Christianity is Judaism in it's purest form. It's truly the religion of love.

So.. What differences do you see? Just asking.

I don't know where to start. There is just many differences from what I have studied. I think it is more easy to say it is more fundamental and other practices which makes both faiths different in my view. Anyhow I like how everyone respect one another here I just can see that we do not agree of spiritualism or beliefs and that could handicap working together.

Johnny916 wrote:
I don't know where to start. There is just many differences from what I have studied. I think it is more easy to say it is more fundamental and other practices which makes both faiths different in my view. Anyhow I like how everyone respect one another here I just can see that we do not agree of spiritualism or beliefs and that could handicap working together.

Yes.. I have studied both of them as well too. I think what makes it confusing is that Christianity today has taken on many of the gentile practices which makes it pretty much unrecognizable to Jews today. What I'm saying is that a follower of Yeshua can still be Torah observant today. In other words, there really is no need to give up Judaism or your Jewish roots. It is still practiced in harmony with the Gospels..

Creating a complete Jew..

Gman wrote:

Johnny916 wrote:
I don't know where to start. There is just many differences from what I have studied. I think it is more easy to say it is more fundamental and other practices which makes both faiths different in my view. Anyhow I like how everyone respect one another here I just can see that we do not agree of spiritualism or beliefs and that could handicap working together.

Yes.. I have studied both of them as well too. I think what makes it confusing is that Christianity today has taken on many of the gentile practices which makes it pretty much unrecognizable to Jews today. What I'm saying is that a follower of Yeshua can still be Torah observant today. In other words, there really is no need to give up Judaism or your Jewish roots. It is still practiced in harmony with the Gospels..

Creating a complete Jew..

Well we do not see eye to eye on what makes a Jew Jewish. I like to keep it kosher. I still have to learn Hebrew. Which I have to wait for classes to start for me.

Johnny916 wrote:
Well we do not see eye to eye on what makes a Jew Jewish. I like to keep it kosher. I still have to learn Hebrew. Which I have to wait for classes to start for me.

Yes.. And so do I. I watch the dietary laws, wear the tallit, study Hebrew, own 9 menorahs, etc.. It's called messianic Judaism, in fact if you came into our synagogue you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. While I would be considered a hybrid, there are still ethnic Jews there who kind of keep us in line (Torah speaking).

Anyways.. Take it in consideration. I'm not here to convert you. There is NO reason for you to give up your Judaism. In fact I would question someone who told you that you should. Judaism is beautiful in it's purest form.

I'm more Orthodox and traditional. I have strict views against what I would call outside practices. If it be something liberal or from a different belief system. It's hard to bridge the gaps.

Johnny916 wrote:I'm more Orthodox and traditional. I have strict views against what I would call outside practices. If it be something liberal or from a different belief system. It's hard to bridge the gaps.

That's great.. And you are correct not to take on any outside practices.. We are to be Torah observant in everything we do. That is where mainline Christianity missed the mark. Again, if you went to my synagogue you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. We recite the Shema, pray toward the ark.. We are NOT liberal either.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. What made you decided to join that particular group over another? What influenced you to?

Johnny916 wrote:Yeah, I see what you are saying. What made you decided to join that particular group over another? What influenced you to?

Good question... I really don't know. When I was in my 20's I really started to get fascinated with Judaism. I bought a kippah, started buying menorahs, built two complete Mishkans in my house, but I didn't know what to do with it. People thought I was losing my mind. Then I asked my grandmother my genealogy and found my Jewish bloodline.. Pretty weird. I even had my DNA tested to confirm it. Although I can't say I'm a thoroughbred, my grandparents mixed with gentiles in the 1800's. There is a Jewish presence in my blood which I'm very proud of.. Although a bit diluted.

Anyways I've found Messianic Judaism and found my home.. I literally cried when I heard my first Hebrew prayers.

Well hopefully you well give other forums of Judaism a chance to?

Johnny916 wrote:Well hopefully you well give other forums of Judaism a chance to?

Ok.. But I'm not sure what you mean.. You mean reformed Jew?

The thing I like about Christianity is that it is a bridge to the gentiles while Jews can still keep their identity if they choose. Messianic Judaism kind of breaks the Jewish ethnic boundaries and it extends it to all races although many of the Messianic Jews still can marry other ethnic Jews. If you were to look under the hood of Messianic Judaism you would find a Jewish engine that runs on gentile oil..