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Re: World Peace

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:27 am
by Danieltwotwenty
neo-x wrote:And you might wanna know that Charles Manson thought that the Beatles were prophets, telling how the world will end through Helter Skeltor, so placing your ideas on a John Lennon song will give you as much authentication as old charlie had.

:pound: i never knew that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: World Peace

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:32 am
by neo-x
lol...seriously, he believed that Beatles songs were prophecies and Manson was some kind of Messiah, like Jesus come to change the world and bring an end to it.
y#-o .

Re: World Peace

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:27 am
by Ant
Sorry but about all of this, I think this is just freedom extracting the the biblical prophecies out of context + some wishful thinking. Not to burst your bubble but such ideas usually lead to cults, beware the path you tread and look if it is according to the scriptures and the message of the Gospel. I am afraid you are thinking along a line which is against the basic biblical teachings.
If one person is wrong, that means another person is wrong? Nice logic there. Perhaps you'd care to show some of this "basic biblical teachings" you mention, rather than just saying I'm wrong. What you are saying is pure opinion. I'll admit that what I'm saying is my opinion of what the Bible is teaching, but I at least give some examples from the Bible to back it up.

The Bible can be interpreted in any way you like. People do so all the time. What I'm saying about John Lennon, is giving an example of the same view from non-Biblical standpoint. Many very highly educated people have come to the same conclusion, without the Bible.

In fact, I've came to the conclusion that ending Global Warming, ending over use of resources (over population problem), ending poverty, and World Peace, can all be accomplished by creating a new society, long before I discovered that the Bible teaches the same thing. I came to that idea of copying the system of society used by ants, long before I discovered that verse in the Bible about ants.

I don't study the Bible to find excuses for what I do. What I'm doing is perfectly logical to me, with or without the Bible. In fact, when I talk to people about it on other forums, I rarely mention the Bible, 'cause I know most of the people who think about this stuff are Atheists. I only speak the Bible in here, to speak your language... as best I can that is. I do learn from the Bible, but I don't seek excuses.

Tony

Re: World Peace

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:43 am
by Ant
Let me give you an example. World Peace. I did not know that World Peace was even mentioned in the Bible. I only knew that Christmas songs mention World Peace, but I didn't know why. A few weeks ago, I got to wondering why Christmas songs mention World Peace.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Is that "wishful thinking"? I didn't wish for it to be in the Bible. I found it by listening to Christmas songs. Before that, I had no idea it was even in there.

Tony

Re: World Peace

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:46 am
by MarcusOfLycia
Ant wrote: In fact, I've came to the conclusion that ending Global Warming, ending over use of resources (over population problem), ending poverty, and World Peace, can all be accomplished by creating a new society, long before I discovered that the Bible teaches the same thing. I came to that idea of copying the system of society used by ants, long before I discovered that verse in the Bible about ants.

I don't study the Bible to find excuses for what I do. What I'm doing is perfectly logical to me, with or without the Bible. In fact, when I talk to people about it on other forums, I rarely mention the Bible, 'cause I know most of the people who think about this stuff are Atheists. I only speak the Bible in here, to speak your language... as best I can that is. I do learn from the Bible, but I don't seek excuses.

Tony
1. The global weather patterns we currently have are the result of natural solar and meteorological cycles. "Stopping" them would be like "stopping" day from happening. It doesn't make sense and it isn't within our power anyway.

2. "Over-population problem" solutions typically involve genocide. Any politician who seeks to end 'over-population problems' is someone I consider an enemy to anyone who lives.

3. There will always be people at every level of wealth. I don't believe this will change until Christ returns. Often, God uses difficult situations to reach people.

4. World peace cannot happen when the heart of almost every person on the planet is bloodthirsty for war and totally focused on self.

---

My main response to what you have to say is that you seem to see the world differently from a lot of Christians through the ages. While it is certainly good to 'make the world a better place', the term 'better' is seldom defined today, and when it is it usually means 'easier, less painful, etc'. But the problem with this is that the world is not supposed to be heaven. It is supposed to be earth. A place where we encounter painful situations, make eternally important decisions, and are forced by our suffering to wake up from the slumber of excess. Making the whole world 'comfortable' without Christ is completely antithetical to Christianity. When the world is too 'comfortable' to need a savior and people are too lazy to consider religion important enough to think about, the consequences are going to be terrible.

---

Also, in response to your comment about peace, you realize that it is Christ that will bring peace in Luke, right? And it didn't happen the first time He came, as a man. Christ has not judged the nations yet, or do you think He has?

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:35 am
by Ant
2. "Over-population problem" solutions typically involve genocide. Any politician who seeks to end 'over-population problems' is someone I consider an enemy to anyone who lives.
In money based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 2 billion or so, probably decreasing with technology. In a moneyless based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 100 billion or so, increasing with technology. I'm not talking about genocide, I'm talking about change in society.
4. World peace cannot happen when the heart of almost every person on the planet is bloodthirsty for war and totally focused on self.
Money based society is a reward training system, which trains people to be selfish. The more selfish they are, the more money they make. Once that system is gone, people will in time become kind and caring towards each other.
Also, in response to your comment about peace, you realize that it is Christ that will bring peace in Luke, right? And it didn't happen the first time He came, as a man. Christ has not judged the nations yet, or do you think He has?
I see this same statement over and over with you people. It is like you know in your hearts I'm right, that a new system of society will bring Peace, but you refuse to do anything about it. You don't have to join a commune if you don't believe God wants you to. You could go around promoting the idea, so that when Jesus comes, it'll be a little more possible to do.

The change is going to be turbulent. Lots of people will die. The number of deaths could easily be reduced, if the people were more open to the idea. If people think highly negative of the idea, as they do now, most of the people on Earth will die. The actions of one person could easily save millions of lives, just by making the idea less negative in the eyes of the people.

You assume everything will happen supernatural. That the same person Jesus will magically come down from the sky, with loads of people watching, and everyone will know it is Jesus. What if that is not the case? Or even worse, what if someone used technology to trick you, with some bad person coming down from the sky?
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Here Jesus is saying there'll be no signs, and I'd have to say Jesus coming down from the sky would be a big obvious sign. So how are you going to tell this Jesus when he comes? If you don't follow anyone who is setting up a new society as Jesus will do unless that person is identified as Jesus, and you have no way of identifying a person as Jesus, what will you do? Pray God to save you from the brick walls you built in your mind?

If a house is burning and children inside are crying, do you wait for the fire department? Yet, you wait for Jesus and do nothing.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Tony

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:01 am
by Danieltwotwenty
If a house is burning and children inside are crying, do you wait for the fire department? Yet, you wait for Jesus and do nothing.
Totally fallacious, i doubt i would know any Christians that do not try for peaceful resolutions in any given situation or save a child from a burning building. Matthew 5:9
I see this same statement over and over with you people.
For someone promoting world peace you seem to be very much on the attack and that my friend is the difference between human efforts and God's.

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 am
by Ant
For someone promoting world peace you seem to be very much on the attack and that my friend is the difference between human efforts and God's.
Yes, God's efforts can be very vicious in their attacks. Like this one by the Apostle Peter, when they asked everyone to sell what they have and give it to the commune they were starting:
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Tony

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:25 am
by Silvertusk
Ant wrote:
2. "Over-population problem" solutions typically involve genocide. Any politician who seeks to end 'over-population problems' is someone I consider an enemy to anyone who lives.
In money based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 2 billion or so, probably decreasing with technology. In a moneyless based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 100 billion or so, increasing with technology. I'm not talking about genocide, I'm talking about change in society.
4. World peace cannot happen when the heart of almost every person on the planet is bloodthirsty for war and totally focused on self.
Money based society is a reward training system, which trains people to be selfish. The more selfish they are, the more money they make. Once that system is gone, people will in time become kind and caring towards each other.
Also, in response to your comment about peace, you realize that it is Christ that will bring peace in Luke, right? And it didn't happen the first time He came, as a man. Christ has not judged the nations yet, or do you think He has?
I see this same statement over and over with you people. It is like you know in your hearts I'm right, that a new system of society will bring Peace, but you refuse to do anything about it. You don't have to join a commune if you don't believe God wants you to. You could go around promoting the idea, so that when Jesus comes, it'll be a little more possible to do.

The change is going to be turbulent. Lots of people will die. The number of deaths could easily be reduced, if the people were more open to the idea. If people think highly negative of the idea, as they do now, most of the people on Earth will die. The actions of one person could easily save millions of lives, just by making the idea less negative in the eyes of the people.

You assume everything will happen supernatural. That the same person Jesus will magically come down from the sky, with loads of people watching, and everyone will know it is Jesus. What if that is not the case? Or even worse, what if someone used technology to trick you, with some bad person coming down from the sky?
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Here Jesus is saying there'll be no signs, and I'd have to say Jesus coming down from the sky would be a big obvious sign. So how are you going to tell this Jesus when he comes? If you don't follow anyone who is setting up a new society as Jesus will do unless that person is identified as Jesus, and you have no way of identifying a person as Jesus, what will you do? Pray God to save you from the brick walls you built in your mind?

If a house is burning and children inside are crying, do you wait for the fire department? Yet, you wait for Jesus and do nothing.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Tony
Christians have done more to promote peace and alleviate suffering in the last century than any other religion I know. They are the driving force behind so many charities and missions to bring help to the poor and suffering - in fact nothing even comes close - So forgive me if I laugh at your suggestion that we just do nothing while we wait for Jesus. We are working to bring the kingdom to the world here and now - you have a lot to learn about Christianity if you think that is the case.

Silvertusk.

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:31 am
by DannyM
Silvertusk wrote:Christians have done more to promote peace and alleviate suffering in the last century than any other religion I know. They are the driving force behind so many charities and missions to bring help to the poor and suffering - in fact nothing even comes close - So forgive me if I laugh at your suggestion that we just do nothing while we wait for Jesus. We are working to bring the kingdom to the world here and now - you have a lot to learn about Christianity if you think that is the case.
He seems to be assuming that nothing is being done. The Christian movement is already in motion. Has been for hundreds of years. I'm afraid the 'call' is a little late.

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:01 pm
by Danieltwotwenty
Yes, God's efforts can be very vicious in their attacks.
I don't see your point, they tried to cheat God and were judged accordingly how is that vicious?
So should we let all thieves and murderers etc... walk free in the name of world peace? :pound:

Daniel

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:05 pm
by Danieltwotwenty
here is another example of a "peaceful" man made society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:54 pm
by B. W.
Hi Ant – so glad your true colors have come out…
Ant wrote: In money based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 2 billion or so, probably decreasing with technology. In a moneyless based society, the maximum sustainable population of Earth is around 100 billion or so, increasing with technology. I'm not talking about genocide, I'm talking about change in society.

Money based society is a reward training system, which trains people to be selfish. The more selfish they are, the more money they make. Once that system is gone, people will in time become kind and caring towards each other.


Have you raised little children - toddlers? They have no concept money, yet, selfishness appears to sprout naturally from them…

Your claim that ‘once that system is gone’ is also a very selfish statement…

Ant wrote: I see this same statement over and over with you people. It is like you know in your hearts I'm right, that a new system of society will bring Peace, but you refuse to do anything about it. You don't have to join a commune if you don't believe God wants you to. You could go around promoting the idea, so that when Jesus comes, it'll be a little more possible to do.

The change is going to be turbulent. Lots of people will die. The number of deaths could easily be reduced, if the people were more open to the idea. If people think highly negative of the idea, as they do now, most of the people on Earth will die. The actions of one person could easily save millions of lives, just by making the idea less negative in the eyes of the people.

You assume everything will happen supernatural. That the same person Jesus will magically come down from the sky, with loads of people watching, and everyone will know it is Jesus. What if that is not the case? Or even worse, what if someone used technology to trick you, with some bad person coming down from the sky?
Lots of people will die, or else! hmmm – “The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10 NKJV

Glad to know what side you are on. Is it Gas Chambers for us Christians? Guillotine? Lot’s of people will die or else! All must submit to your world view – wow – and people like you accuse Christians of the greatest evil of all – pushing their views on everyone else, then say what you said hmmm…

How do you spell Hypocrite – Ant or Tony?

Ant wrote: Here Jesus is saying there'll be no signs, and I'd have to say Jesus coming down from the sky would be a big obvious sign. So how are you going to tell this Jesus when he comes? If you don't follow anyone who is setting up a new society as Jesus will do unless that person is identified as Jesus, and you have no way of identifying a person as Jesus, what will you do? Pray God to save you from the brick walls you built in your mind?

If a house is burning and children inside are crying, do you wait for the fire department? Yet, you wait for Jesus and do nothing….Tony
You will recognize Jesus in his Godly forum when you see him as will everyone else…

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Revelation 20:11, 12c, NKJV

Judge according to there works and you desire total destruction and loss of life to achieve your ways… Hmmm

What judgment awaits you?

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Christians do not seek to destroy the world. We Believers are called to save as many enemies of God who claim their ways are the only means of salvation or else as you cited…

We teach this…

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12, KJV

You teach --
Ant wrote: I see this same statement over and over with you people. It is like you know in your hearts I'm right, that a new system of society will bring Peace, but you refuse to do anything about it. You don't have to join a commune if you don't believe God wants you to. You could go around promoting the idea, so that when Jesus comes, it'll be a little more possible to do.

The change is going to be turbulent. Lots of people will die. The number of deaths could easily be reduced, if the people were more open to the idea. If people think highly negative of the idea, as they do now, most of the people on Earth will die. The actions of one person could easily save millions of lives, just by making the idea less negative in the eyes of the people.

You assume everything will happen supernatural. That the same person Jesus will magically come down from the sky, with loads of people watching, and everyone will know it is Jesus. What if that is not the case? Or even worse, what if someone used technology to trick you, with some bad person coming down from the sky?
We teach…

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36c, KJV

And we teach this truth as well, Romans 5:6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21c

Tony, you too can be reconciled back to God

Stop trying to be like the scavenging ant seeking rot, decay, slaying life to maintain your nest.

God does not need Raid…

Tony, you too can be reconciled back to God before it is too late…
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Re: World Peace

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:32 am
by Ant
He seems to be assuming that nothing is being done. The Christian movement is already in motion. Has been for hundreds of years. I'm afraid the 'call' is a little late.
There are some christians who try to help the poor, yes, but there are many others who cause serious harm to the poor, and promote the opposite of what Jesus taught. For example it is believed by some that Edmund Walsh, a strongly anti-communist Roman Catholic priest, gave McCarthy the idea of using a anti-communist hatred campaign to gain popularity and get reelected. That hatred campaign likely resulted in the US changing sides in Vietnam and causing the Vietnam War which killed a whole lot of people, and not many people know it, but also ended in nuclear war.

There's a lot of churches out there spreading hatred. Hatred for communists. Hatred for muslims. Hatred for democrats or republicans. All that hatred is leading to WW3. A few soup kitchens help, but they don't make up for all the hatred taught by other christians.

As for those other posts... If I teach love and you see hate, what can I tell you? You see what you want to see. If all you see is hate, the hate is in your own heart. Remove the hate from your heart, and then reread what I wrote.

It is not God who threatening to destroy mankind, it is mankind who had nuclear weapons and will, due to hatred and judgement, use them. I'm simply saying that teaching love will reduce that bloodshed. Love for communist viewpoint especially, but also love for muslims, and love for all mankind.

To be honest, I'd like to say love for repulicans and democrates, but... I can't see that helping. How about I say forgiveness for them, and ignoring them, as they have no solutions. They are not the problem, the system is the problem. They are simply a product of their environment, so it is not really their fault.

Tony

Re: World Peace

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:55 am
by Danieltwotwenty
There are some christians who try to help the poor, yes, but there are many others who cause serious harm to the poor, and promote the opposite of what Jesus taught. For example it is believed by some that Edmund Walsh, a strongly anti-communist Roman Catholic priest, gave McCarthy the idea of using a anti-communist hatred campaign to gain popularity and get reelected. That hatred campaign likely resulted in the US changing sides in Vietnam and causing the Vietnam War which killed a whole lot of people, and not many people know it, but also ended in nuclear war.

There's a lot of churches out there spreading hatred. Hatred for communists. Hatred for muslims. Hatred for democrats or republicans. All that hatred is leading to WW3. A few soup kitchens help, but they don't make up for all the hatred taught by other christians.
So does this mean because some "Christians" who are the minority behave bady that all Christians behave the same way, should we also apply this logic to other groups of people?
As for those other posts... If I teach love and you see hate, what can I tell you? You see what you want to see. If all you see is hate, the hate is in your own heart. Remove the hate from your heart, and then reread what I wrote.
I don't see hate, i see someone who is limited in their understanding of Christianity and is making huge assumptions about something they know little about.
Your posts are disrespectful and seem to be attacking our faith for reasons that are not founded in truth or reason, for someone professing love your posts lack the tenderness and respect that love requires.

Daniel