Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Katabole wrote:

RickD wrote:I think hell is the lake of fire.

I respectfully disagree, however, I guess we will discover the truth eventually. Here is a link regarding the second death.

What is the Second Death?

http://mcdonaldroad.org/bible/study/second-d.htm

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if [a]anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Perhaps Hades and hell can be used interchangeably, perhaps not. When I think of hell, I think of the second death. The lake of fire.

EDIT:You do realize the link you posted is from a seventh day adventist website?

Revelation 20:14-15

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Isn't Hades where death resides until the second death?

DannyM wrote:Revelation 20:14-15

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Isn't Hades where death resides until the second death?

That's my understanding as well, Danny.
I think hell is the lake of fire, and hades and hell got confused somewhere along the line, IMO.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This, I take to mean the second death.

I believe Jesus went to Hades after his crucifixion, not hell. Perhaps it's just semantics.

RickD wrote:I believe Jesus went to Hades after his crucifixion, not hell. Perhaps it's just semantics.

Either way, Bro, the lake of fire is everlasting, and it'll be no holiday camp!

RickD wrote:EDIT:You do realize the link you posted is from a seventh day adventist website?

Yes, Lol Rick. I'm not a seventh day Adventist but the scriptures that were included and quoted in my opinion, point to annihilation of the soul rather than eternal torment.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If Hell is a place of eternal torment and pain for those souls who eventually fail, why does it claim in the above scripture that there will be no more pain? If pain, like death, sorrow and crying are passed away, then there shouldn't be any pain, anywhere, not even in Hell, correct? because Hell was consumed in the lake of fire due to the fact that the former or previous things had passed away accoring to the above verse.

I agree with you that Matt 10:28 is speaking about the second death but eternally burning in fire and consciously being aware of it is not death. Death signifies, the end of physical life which I believe is the first death. The death of the soul then is the second death, signifying the end of spiritual life and Matt 10:28 is certainly a threat that God will destroy souls.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. I believe this is a reference to the second death as well.

PaulSacramento wrote:The one constant in all of Jesus's lessons on Hell is that there is fire.
Ghenna was a place of fire, the rich man thirst was never quenched from the flames ( fire).

"Fire" is judgment.

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:The one constant in all of Jesus's lessons on Hell is that there is fire.
Ghenna was a place of fire, the rich man thirst was never quenched from the flames ( fire).

Whether it's literal fire, or figurative fire, the message is clear that it's eternal fire.

I agree. Hell is eternal. Those in hell are eternally judged.

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:I believe Jesus went to Hades after his crucifixion, not hell. Perhaps it's just semantics.

Either way, Bro, the lake of fire is everlasting, and it'll be no holiday camp!

So, what you are saying, is that there is no Chelsea Football Club in the lake of fire?

Yes, Lol Rick. I'm not a seventh day Adventist but the scriptures that were included and quoted in my opinion, point to annihilation of the soul rather than eternal torment.

I don't see it as annihilation. So, I guess we respectfully disagree on that.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If Hell is a place of eternal torment and pain for those souls who eventually fail, why does it claim in the above scripture that there will be no more pain? If pain, like death, sorrow and crying are passed away, then there shouldn't be any pain, anywhere, not even in Hell, correct? because Hell was consumed in the lake of fire due to the fact that the former or previous things had passed away accoring to the above verse.

I believe that scripture is talking specifically about the new heaven and new earth, not hell.

I agree with you that Matt 10:28 is speaking about the second death but eternally burning in fire and consciously being aware of it is not death. Death signifies, the end of physical life which I believe is the first death. The death of the soul then is the second death, signifying the end of spiritual life and Matt 10:28 is certainly a threat that God will destroy souls.

What about our spirits? The soul is what gives us mind, will, and emotions. Some animals have souls(Nephesh). Humans are the only creatures with spirits(made in the image of God). Spirits are eternal(in the had a beginning, but no ending kind of eternal). That's why I don't agree with annihilation.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. I believe this is a reference to the second death as well.

What about our spirit? Or, are you confusing souls and spirits, perhaps?

Katabole wrote:Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If Hell is a place of eternal torment and pain for those souls who eventually fail, why does it claim in the above scripture that there will be no more pain? If pain, like death, sorrow and crying are passed away, then there shouldn't be any pain, anywhere, not even in Hell, correct? because Hell was consumed in the lake of fire due to the fact that the former or previous things had passed away accoring to the above verse.

Kat, this is speaking of the new order.

Revelation 21:1-8

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

5 He who was seated on the throne said, I am making everything new! Then he said, Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.

6 He said to me: It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Now to the key part:

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practise magic arts, the idolaters and all liars— their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.

Isaiah 66:24

And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

Jesus Himself actually quotes this verse in Mark:

Mark 9: 47-49

And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

48 where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'

49Everyone will be salted with fire.

Their worm does not die

And the fire is not quenched

Christian2 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:The one constant in all of Jesus's lessons on Hell is that there is fire.
Ghenna was a place of fire, the rich man thirst was never quenched from the flames ( fire).

"Fire" is judgment.

I believe fire is the sentence, and the sentence comes after the judgement.

RickD wrote:

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:I believe Jesus went to Hades after his crucifixion, not hell. Perhaps it's just semantics.

Either way, Bro, the lake of fire is everlasting, and it'll be no holiday camp!

So, what you are saying, is that there is no Chelsea Football Club in the lake of fire?

Coming to Chelsea in the 80s was Hell for away supporters, I know that much

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:I believe Jesus went to Hades after his crucifixion, not hell. Perhaps it's just semantics.

Either way, Bro, the lake of fire is everlasting, and it'll be no holiday camp!

So, what you are saying, is that there is no Chelsea Football Club in the lake of fire?

Coming to Chelsea in the 80s was Hell for away supporters, I know that much

Beware the football hooligan!!!