Evidence for God from Science

Hello, and i am Terribly sorry that i did not realize sooner that my Post had been accepted, as stated i am considered a 'New christian' and so far the research that i have complied of the universe- which i have to say compared to others my reasearch is not even scratching the surface-was enough to convince me of God's existance. My reasoning for becoming a Christain was a simple one, i had a facination with Life and universe as a whole ever sense i was a young child, wondering how the world worked, but i had yet to be able to comprehend what made it tick, even still i have yet to find out 'how it all works' but who has? anyways As i began to research more i quickly found opposition to my beliefs and was unfortunatly met with a group of very immature and angry Athiests, being a young believer at the time their words were enough to shatter my beliefs, As stated they just seemed so sure of themselves and it seemed like they understood what they were talkign about, After a while of being in what i called my 'agnostic stage' i continued to crave that feeling of being under God's influence, to know that he was there. So i did even more research and found that nearly all that the Athiests had said were taken out of context and were missworded terribly, Even the research that they had claimed to have conducted fell very quickly to the truth. Now i had a new craving, one to show to them that i Held strong in my beliefs and would not be bullied by these 'New Athiests' which from what i understand (correct me if i am wrong) not only sneer at the simpliest mention of christianity, but were encouraged to fight back and 'show the truth' to the 'Superstitious Christians'. i was troubled to hear that they even went so far as to pretend to be christians on forums then 'come out of the closet' as being an Athiest. So as i began to combat them on forums (combat is a bit strong, more like debate) some Resonably nice athiests presented to me a few questions that i myself (as i was usually alone on forums) could not answer, which i am now bring to you, and now i ask if you could please answer them as close to the truth and try to leave opinions at the door unless you state that it is an opinion, as i have developed a trust issue on what people say. I had observed that athiests lied to get thier beliefs across, why couldnt the christians? so i am careful on what i read and research, hoping that most of it is fact on not opinions. And please forgive me if i make any inconsitancies as i write

Questions

1: Noah's Ark; They asked me how could a mortal man construct a Massive wooden boat in the time frame that was given in the bible and then procede to load up all the Animals of the world in pairs and have enough room for them all

2: Morals(sorry i am a bit new to this kind of discussion on morals and needed a bit more indepth research on it) Morals are all just relative (sorry i couldnt combat this one very well)

3:Jesus being placed in the universe, if god was so powerful that he cannot enter the universe due to that such a powerfull force would rip apart the fabric of the universe being that he does not follow the laws of our universe and is 'outside' of it, then how could his son who is nearly as powerful enter it? (given to me by an agnostic man)

4: (a rather odd one that is idiotic (my opinion)) If god is compose of the father, the son and the holy spirit, which one is more powerful? as three is not divided evenly, and thus they couldnt be equally strong (like i said idiotic)

5: How do we know their is only one god?

6: How do we know it is God the father? (god of christianity)

and i will post more if i find any more, thank you for your time

Oh and other one would be Young earth creation, which i myself am a bit 'iffy' on but that is due to only researching the side of opposing it, could perhaps someone give valid and nonopinionated answer? this young earth creationsim has sparked my interest

[Welcome to the Forum Ukranianlys and you will get a wide array of answers regarding you questions. Basic rule to follow is to choose your battles and before choosing any battles, tone up and study the bible and pray. Spend time developing a personal living Omni-personal relationship with the Lord. Ask for his help and to help you find the answers in what as well as how to say thngs. Next, listen to people like Ravi Zacharias, or Mr Stoble, and watch the John Ankerburg’s show. See how they deal with the same kinds of questions and learn

I’ll try to answer some of your questions but these may not be what you are looking for but are designed to give you something to think about. There are no pat answers.

Remember, Ukranianlys, that my answers reflect how I would answer such comments from Atheist and are not directed at you at all. I am a bit more tactfully confrontational and challenging than most.

Ukranianlys wrote:
Questions

1: Noah's Ark; They asked me how could a mortal man construct a Massive wooden boat in the time frame that was given in the bible and then procede to load up all the Animals of the world in pairs and have enough room for them all

May have been built bigger??? Listen it is interesting how may flood accounts are recorded in almost all cultures worldwide . Please note that each never had contact with each other regarding a great Flood. The accounts may vary about the flood, but the truth these stories convey is simple – there must have been a worldwide catastrophic flood that its memory was passed on in so many diverse cultures. So such a flood may actually have happened. (NOTE to reader – there are good articles and books on this subject that one can use to in aid – from this point on – however the discussion goes).

Ukranianlys wrote: 2: Morals(sorry i am a bit new to this kind of discussion on morals and needed a bit more indepth research on it) Morals are all just relative (sorry i couldnt combat this one very well)

Please define what you mean by morals. I have relatives that are amoral – therefore would amorality be relative too? How can something be amoral if all morals are relative? Would not relative morality be amoral? How can that be?

Ukranianlys wrote: 3. Jesus being placed in the universe, if god was so powerful that he cannot enter the universe due to that such a powerful force would rip apart the fabric of the universe being that he does not follow the laws of our universe and is 'outside' of it, then how could his son who is nearly as powerful enter it? (given to me by an agnostic man)

Who says this is truth. Do you personally know God well enough to know if your claim is true - prove it…

Ukranianlys wrote: 4: (a rather odd one that is idiotic (my opinion)) If god is compose of the father, the son and the holy spirit, which one is more powerful? as three is not divided evenly, and thus they couldnt be equally strong (like i said idiotic)

Do you have Blood i.e. fluids in your body? Do you have flesh and bones? Scientist have detected Bioelectric activity in the human brain (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC21182/).

A Person cannot live without these three working as one. All three are made of different substances all with different attributes and functions. All are coequal in keeping life alive. Romans 1:20, 21 is a true statement – why can’t you believe the Godhead who left his tri-nature finger print on living organisms? Though in different form, God likewise has tri-unity within himself. What’s so hard about that?

Ukranianlys wrote: 5: How do we know their is only one god?

How do you know there is not? As Christian, I Know him and he knows me so why not become Born Again and find out for yourself? What’s you afraid of? Besides this, the bible contains prophecy and despite what you may think – many of these have come to pass and are very clear cut in context and meaning.

For example Isaiah 11:11 it mentions the people of Israel being regathered back into the Land of Israel two distinct times. It is very specific. The Jewish people still exist and returned to their land and became a nation again, for the second time in their history culminating in May 1949.

The Jewish people, of all ancient peoples still exist as the same people and heritage – where are the Hittites? The Jewish people believe in one God and he has kept them from being wiped out and going in the ways of the ancient Hittites. Pretty good evidence for one God to me, may not be for you, but who cares? You don’t seem too. Why do you seek to deny God? Think you can hide from him after you die?

Ukranianlys wrote: 6: How do we know it is God the father? (god of christianity)

I am not sure what you mean by this question. Is there a context we can work off here? What are you trying to say?

That is pretty much how I answer such objectors and go in details only when needed and avoid giving long winded answers and responses. As for YEC and OEC question Ukranianlys - I suggest looking over this forum regarding this as well as the articles on the website for details n this.

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Ukranianlys wrote: 2: Morals(sorry i am a bit new to this kind of discussion on morals and needed a bit more indepth research on it) Morals are all just relative (sorry i couldnt combat this one very well)

There is no way to prove that morals are just subjective. No need to combat this, if anything experience reveals the opposite.

Ukranianlys wrote: 3:Jesus being placed in the universe, if god was so powerful that he cannot enter the universe due to that such a powerfull force would rip apart the fabric of the universe being that he does not follow the laws of our universe and is 'outside' of it, then how could his son who is nearly as powerful enter it? (given to me by an agnostic man)

What makes you think God cannot interfere with the universe?

Ukranianlys wrote: 5: How do we know their is only one god?

If God is defined as something along the lines of "That which a greater cannot be thought" then it's rather obvious. If there was more than one God then god cannot be all powerful, etc. as he is defined. God is the very fabric that binds reality together, not a greek construct of gods and titans warring against each other. There cannot be more than one all powerful source of everything, otherwise there would be something outside the source that God has no control over.

Ukranianlys wrote: 6: How do we know it is God the father? (god of christianity)

Answering this question naturally requires the satisfaction of many other arguments/questions, which cannot be done in a single forum post. Start small......

1. About Noah's ark: There are many different viewpoints on the ark. I think that B.W. gave a great reply above. I personally think that the flood was confined to a very large portion of the Middle East and beyond at a time when humanity had not spread out very far, therefore the ark would only need to preserve indigenous creatures and, more so, enough creatures necessary for farming and developing (which, proportionally, is what the bible calls for). Plus, he had a lot of time to build it (120 years). Plus, he personal blueprints from God Himself.
But I am not opposed to worldwide or even smaller flood views... nobody knows the exact truth on the matter.

2. Concerning morals: If morals are just relative, then, basically, morals do not exist. They are caused by chemical reactions and, possibly, a selective advantage over creatures with no morals. There are so many ways to refute this concept that I don't even need to list a few.

3. Why Jesus: Of course God can enter the universe. He has, it says so in the Old Testament. The whole point of Jesus was so that he could come as a man and die on the cross.

4. Holy Trinity: Following the same line of thought, I prefer to think of the Holy Trinity more as three different ways for the same God to reveal Himself.

5. On one God:
- It just makes more sense
- Lots of Judeo-Christian witnesses and testimonies
- How do you know there are just 0 gods?

6. How do we know it is the Christian God?
- It just makes more sense
- Lots of Judeo-Christian witnesses and testimonies
- Scientifically and historically more accurate than others
- How do you know it isn't the Christian God?

Brief responses that I hope will help!

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:How was it for you ?

Quite dissimilar actually

I wasn't raised in a religious household per se, but as children we had been exposed to the Christian teachings and South African society was fairly Christian orientated back then; so I guess the 'idea' of God was always there, but it just didn't feature much in our lives (the same for many I would suspect).

That trend continued right up until I entered the heavy metal scene. I was never a satanist or anything of that sort, I always found the idea somewhat.. disagreeable; I mean yeah I was rebelling and didn't have time for God, but at the same time following the devil just seemed a little stupid to be honest -- why follow a loser so to speak, right? Having said that, I was deep into the scene and did walk a fine line, reading books on the occult, had pentagrams on my wall and other darker moments.

Like many I reached a low point, and with the arrogance and ego of youth behind me, I found peace in accepting God into my life; I just let it all go. It was also a lot easier at the time as my dad was born again so Christianity played a large part in our lives.

Nothing's ever simple though right and when my dad passed away, I was angry, angry in general but also at God, as his was a sudden massive heart attack, no warning or anything, he was just gone. It hit me hard.

It took me quite a while to come to terms with the fact that my dad's heart simply gave in; our bodies are fragile and inevitably the wear and tear takes it's toll. Telling me that at the time wouldn't have helped much.
The damage was done though and my relationship with God had deteriorated and life simply continued on without him.

Evolution is something that never really featured much in my life, but at that particular time it caught my attention. It's a very powerful and pervasive concept. It's everywhere, textbooks, Nat Geo, Animal Planet, your university professors and the wider media. Then you have the figureheads like Dawkins, so confident, so sure, so utterly convinced of it's truth, that alone is almost enough to convince you of it's veracity. The thread of secular ideology runs deep in modern society.

That combined with my extended separation, I began questioning the reality of God. This persisted for a substantial period of time and by then there was a complete disconnect from God.

I began seeking my own answers in science. It was a really slow process though pulling out my brothers old university books, working my way up from the basic building blocks of life; the atom, DNA, RNA, proteins, cell structure, etc. moving onto the likes of Michael Behe's "irreducible complexity" argument, as well as physics, cosmology, etc. It took a while but slowly a picture started forming as I pieced together the various bits and pieces from a wide variety of the sciences.

Spiritually I consider myself damaged goods so for me science really did save my soul. Thanks to my rather chequered past I've got a couple of hangups I need to work through, so I'm still in the process of rebuilding my realtionship with God, but I know what I'm aiming for.

Anyway thought I'd join a forum like this one and learn a few things from my fellow brethren.
Right now I'm stuck in the middle of OEC and YEC, leaning toward YEC, but there are some questions that persist for me. The geologic column being one of them.

And that's me in a nutshell

Thanks for sharing...and i do see some simularities between us....initially, we both embarked on rebellious lifestyles but slowly came to our senses about the destruction that surrounded them. The YEC and OEC is going to be an ongoing spirited debate within Christendom , but aside from periphial issues, the most important one is knowing where One is going after this brief interlude we call, earthly life ...and why . For those who get all their many sins completely erased thru the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, when they get to Heaven I do believe the periphial issues will fade away in the light of being in the Creators presence forever and enjoying the true freedom from pain, suffering, disappointments....and experiencing incredible lavished blessings on us from our loving Creator. Im please to hear your Dad had his Soul in the right place concerning Christ and i hope you have the real conviction of knowing youll be in Heaven with him because , like he, you got reconciled to God thru Gods only appointed way to Heaven (Christ) .

Regards.

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:How was it for you ?

Quite dissimilar actually

I wasn't raised in a religious household per se, but as children we had been exposed to the Christian teachings and South African society was fairly Christian orientated back then; so I guess the 'idea' of God was always there, but it just didn't feature much in our lives (the same for many I would suspect).

That trend continued right up until I entered the heavy metal scene. I was never a satanist or anything of that sort, I always found the idea somewhat.. disagreeable; I mean yeah I was rebelling and didn't have time for God, but at the same time following the devil just seemed a little stupid to be honest -- why follow a loser so to speak, right? Having said that, I was deep into the scene and did walk a fine line, reading books on the occult, had pentagrams on my wall and other darker moments.

Like many I reached a low point, and with the arrogance and ego of youth behind me, I found peace in accepting God into my life; I just let it all go. It was also a lot easier at the time as my dad was born again so Christianity played a large part in our lives.

Nothing's ever simple though right and when my dad passed away, I was angry, angry in general but also at God, as his was a sudden massive heart attack, no warning or anything, he was just gone. It hit me hard.

It took me quite a while to come to terms with the fact that my dad's heart simply gave in; our bodies are fragile and inevitably the wear and tear takes it's toll. Telling me that at the time wouldn't have helped much.
The damage was done though and my relationship with God had deteriorated and life simply continued on without him.

Evolution is something that never really featured much in my life, but at that particular time it caught my attention. It's a very powerful and pervasive concept. It's everywhere, textbooks, Nat Geo, Animal Planet, your university professors and the wider media. Then you have the figureheads like Dawkins, so confident, so sure, so utterly convinced of it's truth, that alone is almost enough to convince you of it's veracity. The thread of secular ideology runs deep in modern society.

That combined with my extended separation, I began questioning the reality of God. This persisted for a substantial period of time and by then there was a complete disconnect from God.

I began seeking my own answers in science. It was a really slow process though pulling out my brothers old university books, working my way up from the basic building blocks of life; the atom, DNA, RNA, proteins, cell structure, etc. moving onto the likes of Michael Behe's "irreducible complexity" argument, as well as physics, cosmology, etc. It took a while but slowly a picture started forming as I pieced together the various bits and pieces from a wide variety of the sciences.

Spiritually I consider myself damaged goods so for me science really did save my soul. Thanks to my rather chequered past I've got a couple of hangups I need to work through, so I'm still in the process of rebuilding my realtionship with God, but I know what I'm aiming for.

Anyway thought I'd join a forum like this one and learn a few things from my fellow brethren.
Right now I'm stuck in the middle of OEC and YEC, leaning toward YEC, but there are some questions that persist for me. The geologic column being one of them.

And that's me in a nutshell

Thanks for sharing...and i do see some simularities between us....initially, we both embarked on rebellious lifestyles but slowly came to our senses about the destruction that surrounded them. The YEC and OEC is going to be an ongoing spirited debate within Christendom , but aside from periphial issues, the most important one is knowing where One is going after this brief interlude we call, earthly life ...and why . For those who get all their many sins completely erased thru the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, when they get to Heaven I do believe the periphial issues will fade away in the light of being in the Creators presence forever and enjoying the true freedom from pain, suffering, disappointments....and experiencing incredible lavished blessings on us from our loving Creator. Im please to hear your Dad had his Soul in the right place concerning Christ and i hope you have the real conviction of knowing youll be in Heaven with him because , like he, you got reconciled to God thru Gods only appointed way to Heaven (Christ) .

Regards.

Thanks for sharing...and i do see some simularities between us....initially, we both embarked on rebellious lifestyles but slowly came to our senses about the destruction that surrounded them. The YEC and OEC is going to be an ongoing spirited debate within Christendom , but aside from periphial issues, the most important one is knowing where One is going after this brief interlude we call, earthly life ...and why . For those who get all their many sins completely erased thru the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, when they get to Heaven I do believe the periphial issues will fade away in the light of being in the Creators presence forever and enjoying the true freedom from pain, suffering, disappointments....and experiencing incredible lavished blessings on us from our loving Creator. Im please to hear your Dad had his Soul in the right place concerning Christ and i hope you have the real conviction of knowing youll be in Heaven with him because , like he, you got reconciled to God thru Gods only appointed way to Heaven (Christ) .

Regards

CallMeDave wrote:Thanks for sharing...and i do see some simularities between us....initially, we both embarked on rebellious lifestyles but slowly came to our senses about the destruction that surrounded them. The YEC and OEC is going to be an ongoing spirited debate within Christendom , but aside from periphial issues, the most important one is knowing where One is going after this brief interlude we call, earthly life ...and why . For those who get all their many sins completely erased thru the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, when they get to Heaven I do believe the periphial issues will fade away in the light of being in the Creators presence forever and enjoying the true freedom from pain, suffering, disappointments....and experiencing incredible lavished blessings on us from our loving Creator. Im please to hear your Dad had his Soul in the right place concerning Christ and i hope you have the real conviction of knowing youll be in Heaven with him because , like he, you got reconciled to God thru Gods only appointed way to Heaven (Christ) .

Regards

Absolutely!
Thing is though, today science can, and does, play a huge role in people finding truth in materialism. Science tells them there is no God, and so they never seek him. In these times of such extensive scientific advancement kids learn in school what it took many centuries of many brilliant minds to unravel.
Every Christian should try and have a good grasp of science and how it impacts our lives. When a person asks a question about why they shouldn't believe in evolution, or why it isn't proof of our true ancestry, they don't want to hear an answer from Genesis they want a scientific explanation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Bible isn't important, on the contrary, however different scenario's call for different responses.

Lookin back I think it was a bit of an overshare more like a testimony..

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:Thanks for sharing...and i do see some simularities between us....initially, we both embarked on rebellious lifestyles but slowly came to our senses about the destruction that surrounded them. The YEC and OEC is going to be an ongoing spirited debate within Christendom , but aside from periphial issues, the most important one is knowing where One is going after this brief interlude we call, earthly life ...and why . For those who get all their many sins completely erased thru the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, when they get to Heaven I do believe the periphial issues will fade away in the light of being in the Creators presence forever and enjoying the true freedom from pain, suffering, disappointments....and experiencing incredible lavished blessings on us from our loving Creator. Im please to hear your Dad had his Soul in the right place concerning Christ and i hope you have the real conviction of knowing youll be in Heaven with him because , like he, you got reconciled to God thru Gods only appointed way to Heaven (Christ) .

Regards

Absolutely!
Thing is though, today science can, and does, play a huge role in people finding truth in materialism. Science tells them there is no God, and so they never seek him. In these times of such extensive scientific advancement kids learn in school what it took many centuries of many brilliant minds to unravel.
Every Christian should try and have a good grasp of science and how it impacts our lives. When a person asks a question about why they shouldn't believe in evolution, or why it isn't proof of our true ancestry, they don't want to hear an answer from Genesis they want a scientific explanation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Bible isn't important, on the contrary, however different scenario's call for different responses.

Lookin back I think it was a bit of an overshare more like a testimony..

Initially, it was modern science which led me to a Christian Worldview instead of materialism and naturalism . I believe alot of people embrace Darwinnian Evolution because it best fits in with their lifestyle MO and freedom found thru sexual mores ...instead of realizing it violates established laws of science and has no explanation to the many things which are utterly impossible to come from natural causes alone . For the open, honest, and unbiased true Seeker....it isnt long before he/she discovers the incredible complexity in created things which macro evolution has absolutely no answer for. One day, macro evolution will go down as being the largest fraud ever perpetuated on the masses and if Darwin were here today looking down a powerful microscope into the Cell...he would no doubt profusely apologize for having led so many astray .

CallMeDave wrote:Initially, it was modern science which led me to a Christian Worldview instead of materialism and naturalism . I believe alot of people embrace Darwinnian Evolution because it best fits in with their lifestyle MO and freedom found thru sexual mores ...instead of realizing it violates established laws of science and has no explanation to the many things which are utterly impossible to come from natural causes alone . For the open, honest, and unbiased true Seeker....it isnt long before he/she discovers the incredible complexity in created things which macro evolution has absolutely no answer for. One day, macro evolution will go down as being the largest fraud ever perpetuated on the masses and if Darwin were here today looking down a powerful microscope into the Cell...he would no doubt profusely apologize for having led so many astray .

I agree. However, and it's a biggy, many people aren't actually exposed to the entire truth (in school, university, etc.) surrounding evolution. They aren't in any way taught the failings of evolution, only it's strengths; and they have no reason to go in search of more answers and so accept what they have been taught as fact. They make a judgment from a skewed understanding of the evidence.

Take a man like Michael Behe for example, today one of intelligent design's strongest proponents, yet through all his time studying and earning his Ph.D he wasn't exposed to the weaknesses of the theory and it was only when he read the book Darwin on Trial that he began to question (I think that's how the story goes anyway).

My brother is a good example. Spirituality never featured much throughout his life. Today he is an atheist based solely on what he learnt at university cemented through his textbooks and lecturers. It's not a view he pursued, rather it just makes the most logical sense from what he has learned. At least now I'm armed with a similar understanding of biology and life at the cellular level and can engage in a conversation with him as to why one cannot make that jump from micro to macroevolution; and in fact all the evidence points to the exact opposite.
He's been overseas for quite a while, so we're gonna have a nice chat when he get's back

Yeah there's a quote, that you also mentioned in another thread, that sums things up nicely.

I suppose that nobody will deny that it is a great misfortune if an entire branch of science becomes addicted to a false theory. But this is what has happened in biology: for a long time now people discuss evolutionary problems in a peculiar "Darwinian" vocabulary-"adaptation," "selection pressure," "natural selection," etc.-thereby believing that they contribute to the explanation of natural events. They do not... I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science.
-- Prof. Soren Lovtrup, Embryologist.

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:Initially, it was modern science which led me to a Christian Worldview instead of materialism and naturalism . I believe alot of people embrace Darwinnian Evolution because it best fits in with their lifestyle MO and freedom found thru sexual mores ...instead of realizing it violates established laws of science and has no explanation to the many things which are utterly impossible to come from natural causes alone . For the open, honest, and unbiased true Seeker....it isnt long before he/she discovers the incredible complexity in created things which macro evolution has absolutely no answer for. One day, macro evolution will go down as being the largest fraud ever perpetuated on the masses and if Darwin were here today looking down a powerful microscope into the Cell...he would no doubt profusely apologize for having led so many astray .

I agree. However, and it's a biggy, many people aren't actually exposed to the entire truth (in school, university, etc.) surrounding evolution. They aren't in any way taught the failings of evolution, only it's strengths; and they have no reason to go in search of more answers and so accept what they have been taught as fact. They make a judgment from a skewed understanding of the evidence.

Take a man like Michael Behe for example, today one of intelligent design's strongest proponents, yet through all his time studying and earning his Ph.D he wasn't exposed to the weaknesses of the theory and it was only when he read the book Darwin on Trial that he began to question (I think that's how the story goes anyway).

My brother is a good example. Spirituality never featured much throughout his life. Today he is an atheist based solely on what he learnt at university cemented through his textbooks and lecturers. It's not a view he pursued, rather it just makes the most logical sense from what he has learned. At least now I'm armed with a similar understanding of biology and life at the cellular level and can engage in a conversation with him as to why one cannot make that jump from micro to macroevolution; and in fact all the evidence points to the exact opposite.
He's been overseas for quite a while, so we're gonna have a nice chat when he get's back

Yeah there's a quote, that you also mentioned in another thread, that sums things up nicely.

I suppose that nobody will deny that it is a great misfortune if an entire branch of science becomes addicted to a false theory. But this is what has happened in biology: for a long time now people discuss evolutionary problems in a peculiar "Darwinian" vocabulary-"adaptation," "selection pressure," "natural selection," etc.-thereby believing that they contribute to the explanation of natural events. They do not... I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science.
-- Prof. Soren Lovtrup, Embryologist.

Yes, you are correct that public schools are very biased in what they teach, and in doing so, they do the Student a great dis-service. Intelligent Design of the Cosmos which ISNT religious....should be taught as an alternative and focus it strictly on the scientific emphircal evidence at hand . No religious book cover need even be opened . I see two problems with most people :

1. They , like the Bible says, are ignorant when it comes to any competing view of naturalism/materialism ; you cant hold them harmless regarding this however, because they DO have the ability to investigate but have decided to remain comfortable in what they were taught in school for whatever reason .

2. They desire to refuse the truth in which they have before them , because it isnt philosophically appealing . IE: A personal Creator comes with all sorts of personal implications for said Person (autonomy, lifestyle choice restrictions, being owned, etc...) . You even see this in very intelligent Evolutionary Scientists like Prof. Richard Lewontin who gushed out his prejudice in a candid moment :

Note the last sentence :

LEWONTIN: ‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.

It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door'.


I wish you great success with your Brother since there is so much at stake for him (unbeknowns to himself) . Let us hope and pray that he too will come to the truth AND embrace it to the point it becomes a Soul changing experience. Regards.

Thank you very much for responding all of you, and i am sorry if i missworded these questions, i had to get them off the top of my head as the forums that i had encountered them in have either been lost due to me losing a desktop computer and all its favorites, or deleted.

For morals, they had told me that 'Morals are nothing but chemical responses in the brain, telling us to do this or that, its all relative' he had stated that morals were intergrated into our DNA, and all of our morals are from the brain, not God

As for more questions, i have a few "absurd" ones and a few serious ones i hope you have the Sense of humor to accept them, and its not that i agree with what they say, far from the truth, its just that i had no reasonable explination for them, and all im try is to get good facts from a group of intelligent people who have my same interests, i just dont want to be in a debate and get caught with my pants down against an athiest.


1:his exact words: "How do we know that two aliens weren't flying by in their starship, and created us because they were bored?" i had to hold in my laughter, i simply asked him "who created the aliens then that 'created' us?" but it wasnt enough for him, any insight on your part? Do you guys have a more reasonable explination against his "alien creation theory"? besides it obvious silliness

2: A man on a forum had told me that "the dinosoaurs are enough to disprove Genesis" i asked his further "could you be more specific? How are the dinosaurs enough to disprove the first book of the bible?" he quickly responded "if earth was created 4'000 years ago, then how come we have fossilized evidence of dinosaurs from millions of years ago?" I dont recall the bible stating that the earth was created 4'000 years ago (correct me if im wrong) but are the dinosaurs enough to disprove that statement that god made the earth in Six twenty four hour days?

3: Another woman had said to me to me after i had explain where God came from (I had said that he does not follow the rules of our universe as Physics were created at the beginning of time, The laws of th universe say that Everything has a creator, but God was here before Physics and Time, therefor he doesnt follow our 'rules' and is more than we can fathom) "God doesnt need to exist. Who is to say (previous to this argument i had told them of the possibility of this universe forming naturally, information that was taken from this website) that their isnt a constant chain of universes being made and our just happened to get the numbers right? wouldnt a universe eventually line up with all the right numbers?" (from my understanding this is called the 'multiverse theory' and i have yet to find an explination to

Thank you for your time and sorry for any misspelling or if you just dont understand what was stated by them (this is them saying this not me, i am presenting what they had said to you) let me know and i will give an explination to what i had taken from what they had said

Ukranianlys wrote:2: A man on a forum had told me that "the dinosoaurs are enough to disprove Genesis" i asked his further "could you be more specific? How are the dinosaurs enough to disprove the first book of the bible?" he quickly responded "if earth was created 4'000 years ago, then how come we have fossilized evidence of dinosaurs from millions of years ago?" I dont recall the bible stating that the earth was created 4'000 years ago (correct me if im wrong) but are the dinosaurs enough to disprove that statement that god made the earth in Six twenty four hour days?

Here's an interesting article: http://creation.com/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery

And dating methods aren't terribly reliable: http://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter4.pdf

Ukranianlys wrote:3: Another woman had said to me to me after i had explain where God came from (I had said that he does not follow the rules of our universe as Physics were created at the beginning of time, The laws of th universe say that Everything has a creator, but God was here before Physics and Time, therefor he doesnt follow our 'rules' and is more than we can fathom) "God doesnt need to exist. Who is to say (previous to this argument i had told them of the possibility of this universe forming naturally, information that was taken from this website) that their isnt a constant chain of universes being made and our just happened to get the numbers right? wouldnt a universe eventually line up with all the right numbers?" (from my understanding this is called the 'multiverse theory' and i have yet to find an explination to

There's no proof of the multiverse, I don't even think it's classified as a theory.

Ukranianlys wrote:Thank you very much for responding all of you, and i am sorry if i missworded these questions, i had to get them off the top of my head as the forums that i had encountered them in have either been lost due to me losing a desktop computer and all its favorites, or deleted.

For morals, they had told me that 'Morals are nothing but chemical responses in the brain, telling us to do this or that, its all relative' he had stated that morals were intergrated into our DNA, and all of our morals are from the brain, not God

As for more questions, i have a few "absurd" ones and a few serious ones i hope you have the Sense of humor to accept them, and its not that i agree with what they say, far from the truth, its just that i had no reasonable explination for them, and all im try is to get good facts from a group of intelligent people who have my same interests, i just dont want to be in a debate and get caught with my pants down against an athiest.


1:his exact words: "How do we know that two aliens weren't flying by in their starship, and created us because they were bored?" i had to hold in my laughter, i simply asked him "who created the aliens then that 'created' us?" but it wasnt enough for him, any insight on your part? Do you guys have a more reasonable explination against his "alien creation theory"? besides it obvious silliness

2: A man on a forum had told me that "the dinosoaurs are enough to disprove Genesis" i asked his further "could you be more specific? How are the dinosaurs enough to disprove the first book of the bible?" he quickly responded "if earth was created 4'000 years ago, then how come we have fossilized evidence of dinosaurs from millions of years ago?" I dont recall the bible stating that the earth was created 4'000 years ago (correct me if im wrong) but are the dinosaurs enough to disprove that statement that god made the earth in Six twenty four hour days?

3: Another woman had said to me to me after i had explain where God came from (I had said that he does not follow the rules of our universe as Physics were created at the beginning of time, The laws of th universe say that Everything has a creator, but God was here before Physics and Time, therefor he doesnt follow our 'rules' and is more than we can fathom) "God doesnt need to exist. Who is to say (previous to this argument i had told them of the possibility of this universe forming naturally, information that was taken from this website) that their isnt a constant chain of universes being made and our just happened to get the numbers right? wouldnt a universe eventually line up with all the right numbers?" (from my understanding this is called the 'multiverse theory' and i have yet to find an explination to

Thank you for your time and sorry for any misspelling or if you just dont understand what was stated by them (this is them saying this not me, i am presenting what they had said to you) let me know and i will give an explination to what i had taken from what they had said

In order--------------

1. Because we have a Person who claimed to be the Creator , who fulfilled over 200 narrow prophecies about himself, who predicted his own death and ressurection 3 days later then did it, which therefore means he is believable , credible, and the One to follow (Jesus Christ) . There is more historical evidence for Christ than any other Person of antiquity from a christian and secular historian standpoint. , including eye witness testimony from those he walked with and who willingly gave up their lives for what they saw first hand. This alone, nullifies all other madeup possibilities including 2 Aliens having lunch together and deciding to 'make us' , a kid running a science experiment , a whole bunch of chance universes, or the Cosmos coming from a cosmic burp by Nothing, from nothing, for nothing. Go here for the evidence for Christ : http://www.impactapologetics.com

2. There are no sceintific instruments that can date ANYTHING being millions of years old. That figure is based on what Geologists say the rocks around the Dino's are in terms of age. Its circular reasoning . Further, hemoglobyn has been found in dead Dinosaurs which rules out millions of years . Further, undigested Ferns have been found in Mammoths ruling out millions of years. Dino's are even mentioned in the Bible but under a different name . The term 'Dinosaur' wasnt formed till the 1800's . In remote Africa, natives have reported a Dinosaur like creature that inhabits their huge Lake. Same for Nessie in Scotland.

3. Multiverse theory is yet another desperate attempt to eliminate a personal theistic Creator for what we have. Further, no amount of material multiverses could ever burp into existence the personal and the intelligent traits we see in us and purposed informational messages in the DNA molecule for example....further, no amount of multiverses could produce over 150 Life Enabling Constants which science has discovered and can measure to within 120th decimal points of critical tolerance and....maintain all of these (for, they are all dependent on each other). These sorts of things are impossible for natural causes to accomplish. Only a Mind, a Will, and supreme personal Power can make it all happen and interconnect it all so minutely and precisely.

Lastly, morals cant be just brain chemical responses coming by accident because chemicals cant decide what is right from wrong nor do they care what is right from wrong ; only an immaterial Soul having a immaterial Mind can discern right from wrong which too, is immaterial . Our brain may RESPOND to moral violations that happen to us via internal chemical changes...but thoughts and feelings cant be explained from originating in our physical Brains. The Moral Code which we all have in the fiber of our Being, are a prescription from a higher moral Source ...and prescriptions only come from a Prescriber. Man DISCOVERS what is right from wrong, and doesnt decide . If Man decided right from wrong, then they would only be opinions...which would allow no objective difference between Hitler and Mother Theresa . Lastly, morals cant be 'relative' --- relative to what ? We say something is wrong or bad because we have some idea of what good and best, is ; so, we judge right from wrong based on a standard which is beyond us . And THAT is Gods absolute moral standard. You cant call a line crooked unless you know what a perfectly straight line is like to compare it to.