Evidence for God from Science

Ok, I'm still not completely sure I'm following you here. I believe people can suffer the consequences of sin. If you're talking about God punishing us in this physical life, for our sin, then I don't know if I agree. You said that

temporal punishment (a doctrine pretty much agreed upon across the spectrum of orthodox Christianity).

TBH, I'd never heard of "temporal punishment". And, when I googled the term, it only brought up Catholic sites. I don't see it as something that is agreed upon across all of Christianity. Unless there's a different, non-Catholic term, that is used outside Catholicism. If that's the case, then I'd bet we'd disagree that they mean the same thing.

I guess I see a difference between suffering the consequences of our sinful nature, while still in the flesh, and suffering the consequences of our sinful nature, after we die, and our sinful nature is gone. I don't see that those in Christ will have any punishment for sins after we die, and leave our sinful nature behind. I guess I don't equate purgatory, and the bema seat. One is punishment, and one isn't. At least that's how I understand it. Perhaps I'm missing something?

RickD wrote:

temporal punishment (a doctrine pretty much agreed upon across the spectrum of orthodox Christianity).

TBH, I'd never heard of "temporal punishment". And, when I googled the term, it only brought up Catholic sites. I don't see it as something that is agreed upon across all of Christianity. Unless there's a different, non-Catholic term, that is used outside Catholicism. If that's the case, then I'd bet we'd disagree that they mean the same thing.

Hmm, for some reason I was under the impression since non-Catholics believe that death was a result of sin (particularly those of the YEC persuasion ) that they also believe that other consequences of sin are also manifest physically. I believe I've heard Jac say that once or twice but I don't want to misrepresent his position so I don't know.

RickD wrote:Ok, I'm still not completely sure I'm following you here. I believe people can suffer the consequences of sin. If you're talking about God punishing us in this physical life, for our sin, then I don't know if I agree.

It's not a punishment from God Rick, I've said that before, it's the physical consequence of sin.

RickD wrote:I guess I see a difference between suffering the consequences of our sinful nature, while still in the flesh, and suffering the consequences of our sinful nature, after we die, and our sinful nature is gone. I don't see that those in Christ will have any punishment for sins after we die, and leave our sinful nature behind. I guess I don't equate purgatory, and the bema seat. One is punishment, and one isn't. At least that's how I understand it. Perhaps I'm missing something?

You're focusing too much on the word 'punishment'. I've already laid out the case for equating purgatory with the Bema Seat Judgment so there's no point in repeating it here. Suffice it to say that when I face Christ and have to account for my deeds, good or bad, it will be a most awesome and most humbling experience. That in and of itself settles the parallels between the two for me.

According to St. Isidore of Seville (Deord. creatur., c. xiv, n. 6) these words prove that in the next life "some sins will be forgiven and purged away by a certain purifying fire." St. Augustine also argues "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come"

Isn't the only sin unforgivable is blasphemy right? By blasphemy I mean rejecting God.

RickD wrote:
Ok, I'm still not completely sure I'm following you here. I believe people can suffer the consequences of sin. If you're talking about God punishing us in this physical life, for our sin, then I don't know if I agree.


It's not a punishment from God Rick, I've said that before, it's the physical consequence of sin.

Ok, if that's what you mean by "temporal punishment", then we're probably in agreement, in that regard.
Like I said, I'd never heard of this before.

Here are some ancient quotations to support the Catholic dogma about purgatory.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-roots-of-purgatory

Two comments on the link above:

1) I was surprised at how few bible verses are given to explain this doctrine, at least in the article. But I realize that the purpose of the article was to show purgatory's roots in the Jewish faith and later in the Christian faith rather than the biblical basis for it.
2) Most of the verses given in support make it seem like the doctrine of purgatory is more of a purification process instead of a place that people go to be purified of sin.

That's my two cents, coming from someone who does not have much knowledge on the subject of purgatory. I would definitely like to learn more, and I will search the forums for more on purgatory.