Evidence for God from Science

Where is Jac/Kurieuo so maybe they can refute the Jew's claim against the Triunity or Jesus being God.

His main reason for not believing is this:

"False prophets are a lot more convincing than True prophets because they tell you what you want to hear rather than tell you the Truth. That is why there are such strict measures in the Torah to discover if someone is a false prophet. The first of these measures is that they tell you a commandmant is now void.

Jews probably keep the best tract of traditions and know exactly why each of them was implemented, when why, and under who's authority. Jewish law is also VERY clear as to which laws are from the Torah and therefore G-d and which are from Rabinical decrees and are therefore mere Fences.

One of the first Laws in the Torah, after the declaration of new moons is the Law to Follow the Rabbis of your Generation, It is therefore argued that every Rabinic law is infact a Torah low. However, the Rabbis are still very picky to make sure people seperate the two and know one from the other.

I am happy to note that the most Jews that were ever lost to Christianity was through the sword and not the word.

So yes, they could have been assimiliated and implemented by anyone, but guess what? I know who implemented it and when it was assimiliated. The Nature of G-d was implemented and assimilated by Abraham when he destroyed the idols in his father's shop. And later again when he was challenged by Nimrod."

all this jewish prejudice is just insecurity of faith

vvart wrote:
I am happy to note that the most Jews that were ever lost to Christianity was through the sword and not the word.

I disagree with that Statement! The reason being is mostly all Early Christians were Jewish not Gentiles. in One Day alone 5000 came to the Lord! I would like to know where in History It tells us that Christians Persecuted Jews to become Christian!

i cannot beleive that a christian would prefer the sword to the word

I'm not prejudice against Jews, I used to be angry at them, but not anymore. The more you understand Theology the more clear things become.

Was that ever a part of the Crusades? Instead of preaching, killing, to convert?

Also, vvart, I'm confused....are you saying one reason according to this Jewish guy that Jesus wasn't really God is that He preached what people wanted to hear, or am I misunderstanding? (and Jesus didn't preach what people wanted to hear, look at all the times the head honchos, the pharisees and other -sees were upset at what Jesus said). He wasn't playing Mr. Popularity....

I am still a baby christian, I do not have enough faith or understanding of the knowledge that God entrusted to me to be able to combat my anger yet, but working on it.

That's always good. Anyone can cry out when they see sin, but few people actually do something about it.

Psalm 28:7
The LORD is my strength and my shield; My heart trusts in Him, and I am helped; Therefore my heart exults, And with my song I shall thank Him.


It is something that I have mentally realized, but not put into practice-only through Christ can you live right. Benjamin Franklin, a deist, and an arrogant son of a gun, tried to remove sin himself...but once he stopped thinking on one of his many sins (he listed less than 20, what balogney), he would start that one up again.

Some facts about the Crusades:

* The turks instigated the first one by taking Jerusalem from the Saracens(Arabs) and by attacking the Byzantine Empire.
*The crusaders went to defend christianity, not to convert anybody, although there were churches set up which welcomed anybody who wished to learn more.
*The following crusades, for the most part, were instigated by the pope and the regents of the time for the sake of plunder, while making the crusaders believe they were protecting Christianity. As recorded by history, when the European armies were too weak to be of any use in the war, they stopped invading, as it was no longer profitable.

The crusades went bad, in my opinion, when the kings' greed was so powerful that they started fighting the Arabs as well. The turks needed a good ass kicking, but the arabs of the time were one of the most advanced(and relatively tolerant) nations in the world. The turks provided no benefits to humanity. They just plundered, took slaves, and went back home to use up the plunder after which they would start over again.l

Didn't know it was Turks and Arabs fighting against each other-I thought it was Europe vs all of Islam or something. Cool stuff. All I really knew was that the popes called for them.

No no no, the turks and arabs did fight at first, but thats not what the crusades were about. The europeans attacked the turks, and they somehow managed to fight the arabs as well(which were likely fighting the turks too, but I'm not sure about this). Kind of like a vicious circle.

All right-got it. A brawl starts so the other dudes in the bar get involved.

To a Jew well versed in the OT scriptures, all you have to show is that Jesus is alive. You can do it now or at the second coming of Jesus.

Someone mentioned once that the Jews are the most difficult race in the world to get along with. Could be that this is a love test for Christians?

vvart wrote:"Now, as for Jesus... I do not know enough about Christianity to seperate the teachings of Jesus from the teachings of Paul or Jhon or Luke. However, the BIG glaring reason why it is impossible for a Jew to follow a prophet such as Jesus, is that he teaches that the Laws in the Torah nolonger apply. As I said, the Torah is Eternal, it can not be added to and it can not be subtracted from. For Jesus to say, Love your neighbor but don't worry about keeping Kosher, is, according to the very word of the five books of moses a CLEAR sign that such a prophet is a false prophet."

In relation to Jesus, I'd say your friend knows very little about Christ who was a Rabbi himself. I'd encourage him to read the NT gospels, and discover what is written about Christ for himself. Christ kept kosher, fulfilled levitical laws, but rebuked the additional rules and regulations added to the Law by the Pharisees.

It is also made clear in the Torah that the covenant has two sides (God's and Israel's). If the covenant becomes broken by one, then does is still exist? (Deuteronomy 7:12) No, but God still remained faithful on many occasions to Israel despite their unfaithfulness (as God remains faithful to us, despite our unfaithfulness). I really wonder what your friend would make of the following passage:

• 31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
  32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD .
  33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
  34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

vvart wrote:"Also, there is a very basic Jewish principle that I have repeated a few times that nobody can fuffill your obligations save another person with the same obligations. Since Jesus did not commit all sins, nor did he force all Jews to break all the laws, Jesus can not suffer on behalf of the people to anull any wrong doings the people or individuals have done. This applies to being Sacrificed on the cross, as much as it applies to a 13 year old boy saying the blessing over food for me."

Your friend appears to be lacking knowledge about the concept of redemption, a very Jewish concept. Let me explain...

In Israel, if someone ever got into debt and could not repay what they owed, then they would be put into slavery to work and pay off their debt. However, if someone else chose to come and pay the debt, then the person in debt could be redeemed. The person who would pay to redeem another from slavery was called the "kinsman redeemer."

Now, the first qualification of being a kinsman-redeemer is that the redeemer must be related to the person in debt. The second qualification for the redeemer is that they must be free themselves.

Applying this to ourselves, we are all sinners before God having committed wrongful acts. God on the other hand is all-righteous and as such He cannot just glimpse past wrongful acts we commit against Him. If God did just glimpse past our sin, it would make God semi-righteous and accepting of evil, which means God wouldn't really be righteous at all. So if we are ever to be with an all-righteous God, we have to be made right before God.

Thus, if we who are slaves to sin are to be with a holy and righteous God, we need to be somehow freed from being a slave to sin. And Jesus was the only person who qualified for the task of redeeming us. Jesus qualified firstly because he met the redeemer requirement of being associated with us by being born into our world as a human. Jesus also met the second requirement, that is, being free from sin. So if we were ever to be redeemed from sin, and so be justified before a righteous God, Jesus was qualified to redeem us.

However redemption doesn't come without a payment. In order to set us free from sin so that we could be accepted by God, a payment was required. We are told that the price of sin is death. This especially makes sense when we understand how sin kills our relationship between us and a Holy God, causing a death. Jesus therefore chose to sacrifice Himself, making payment on our behalf for our sin.

So now those who choose to allow Christ into their lives and follow Him, belong to Him and are saved from an eternal death they would otherwise have from God. They have been purchased with a price! And Jesus is our kinsman redeemer!

Kurieuo.

PS. You might also be interested to browse over the following website (if you haven't already): http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

Another Site (Jewish Site) which I find quite Interesting is http://www.askmoses.com. It is quite interesting to read... AND YOU GET to ask Questions