Evidence for God from Science

While Jesus kept the Sabbath, when asked what commandments to keep:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV;

excerpt:
Matthew 19:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And Paul when he mentioned commandments:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

BavarianWheels wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think the comparison with Cain is in regards to proper and improper offering of worship.
That if one does not offer worship in the correct way, God gets upset.

God gets upset? As if God's Law is predicated on His emotions...lol

Oh, so God didn't get upset with Cain's offering?
Since there was NO LAW yet for Cain, I am not sure what "God's Law" has to do with God "not caring" for Caine's offering.
Remember that up until the Mount Sinai and Moses, there was NO sabbath rest or "Law".

Look, if you or anyone else choose to hold the sabbath as a day "above all other days" that's fine and that you choose to make that day "saturday", is fine too.
Not all Christians choose to do that.

BavarianWheels wrote:
If you can't see it, then it answers to me why you're questioning whether the Sabbath, the 4th Commandment, and therefore God's Word is set aside by you and promoted as "no longer necessary".

I never said it was ever necessary for me to hold to. So, I don't believe it is "no longer necessary".

Exodus 20:10 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Bav, am I also setting God's word aside, because I don't allow my manservant, and maidservant to rest on the Sabbath? No, because that never pertained to me. I never had a manservant or maidservant. Does that mean I have to go out and get servants, so I can give them the day off?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity

A simple but good overview with links.

PaulSacramento wrote:While Jesus kept the Sabbath, when asked what commandments to keep:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV;

excerpt:
Matthew 19:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And Paul when he mentioned commandments:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 John 5:3

2 John 1:6

Bavarian, you keep trying to counter verse with another verse but what exactly are you trying to imply?
That YOUR verse carry more weight than the other ones????

PaulSacramento wrote:

BavarianWheels wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think the comparison with Cain is in regards to proper and improper offering of worship.
That if one does not offer worship in the correct way, God gets upset.

God gets upset? As if God's Law is predicated on His emotions...lol

Oh, so God didn't get upset with Cain's offering?
Since there was NO LAW yet for Cain, I am not sure what "God's Law" has to do with God "not caring" for Caine's offering.
Remember that up until the Mount Sinai and Moses, there was NO sabbath rest or "Law".

Look, if you or anyone else choose to hold the sabbath as a day "above all other days" that's fine and that you choose to make that day "saturday", is fine too.
Not all Christians choose to do that.

You're right...there was "no law yet" ( in that it wasn't laid out in the Bible yet or hadn't been uttered by God to man yet...either way ) yet Cain did wrong in murdering his brother...how?

PaulSacramento wrote:Bavarian, you keep trying to counter verse with another verse but what exactly are you trying to imply?
That YOUR verse carry more weight than the other ones????

No. That the Bible is in harmony with God's Moral Law...

lol...here we go.

Of course Cain did wrong in murdering his brother, but we are talking about God being displeased with his offering, not the murder which came after.
And as for 2John:
4 I was very glad to find some of your children walking in truth, just as we have received commandment to do from the Father. 5 Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

The commandment(s) he was speaking, in THIS case, was the Commandments of LOVE.

Bav, could you please list all of the commandments that we need to follow? Do we need to be circumcised?

How often do we need to make the altar described here:
Exodus 20:24 24“‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings,b your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26And do not go up to my altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it.’

Exodus 22:18 18“Do not allow a sorceress to live.
Do we need to follow this law, as well?

Bav, I suggest you keep reading Exodus. You can't help but see it was written to a very specific people. Not to us.



The Sabbath was a shadow of Christ. My reality should be with Christ, not following the Old Testament laws, that were never commanded to me to follow.
Colossians 2:16-17 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Great...rape, murder, use God's name in vain, disrespect and/or kill your parents, lie, cheat...all is now permissable

Wheels,
This is just an emotional appeal. Was murder, rape, cheating permissable before Sinai, yes or no??
Further, no SDA is keeing the Sabbath. They are keeping a modified, convenient version with no penalty of stoning.

yet Cain did wrong in murdering his brother...how?

Murder is wrong is all times and all dispensations.
Gentiles were NEVER charged with keeping the Sabbath, circumcision or any holy day restrictions. Yet Sabbatarians adore legalism and desire to put a yoke on our necks.

Bav, you also use 1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

to back up why you keep the Sabbath on Saturday. So, according to you, we need to keep all God's commandments. So, in regards to this:Exodus 22:18 18 “You shall not allow a sorceress to live.

I have next Monday off. I'll pick you up around 8:00, and we can go sorceress hunting. It'll be fun. It certainly won't be burdensome.

PaulSacramento wrote:The commandment(s) he was speaking, in THIS case, was the Commandments of LOVE.

Where is this specific commandment? Certainly not specifically in the decalogue, but a fullfilment OF the decalogue.

RickD wrote:Bav, could you please list all of the commandments that we need to follow? Do we need to be circumcised?

All 10. Those which were on the tablets of stone that were put into the Ark of the Covenant.

RickD wrote:How often do we need to make the altar described here:
Exodus 20:24 24“‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings,b your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26And do not go up to my altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it.’

Exodus 22:18 18“Do not allow a sorceress to live.
Do we need to follow this law, as well?

Is this in the decalogue?

RickD wrote:Bav, I suggest you keep reading Exodus. You can't help but see it was written to a very specific people. Not to us.

Interesting as the OT lead to the NT and therefore is the basis for the NT, not to mention it is the only "Bible" Jesus knew and taught from and our Savior was a Jew...and since when is JEW spelled M. A. N. Mark 2:27 ? An error in translation or error in terms we can attribute to Jesus?

RickD wrote:The Sabbath was a shadow of Christ. My reality should be with Christ, not following the Old Testament laws, that were never commanded to me to follow.
Colossians 2:16-17 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The Sabbath is not a shadow of Christ. Please read the 4th Commandment. It is not specified to "keep" as a shadow of Christ's redemptive work, but because God is, (1) God, and (2) Creator.

I suggest you read the 4th Commandment over again and point to me and to anyone else reading this thread, where in the 4th Commandment we are commanded to keep the Sabbath as a "shadow" of Christ. The shadow of Christ is in the temple sacrifices that SHADOWED Christ's redemptive work on the cross AND NOT in the work that God rested from where this day, the Sabbath, was made holy.

jlay wrote:

Great...rape, murder, use God's name in vain, disrespect and/or kill your parents, lie, cheat...all is now permissable

Wheels,
This is just an emotional appeal. Was murder, rape, cheating permissable before Sinai, yes or no??
Further, no SDA is keeing the Sabbath. They are keeping a modified, convenient version with no penalty of stoning.

Then be the first to fullfill God's word and "cast the first stone."

jlay wrote:

yet Cain did wrong in murdering his brother...how?

Murder is wrong is all times and all dispensations.
Gentiles were NEVER charged with keeping the Sabbath, circumcision or any holy day restrictions. Yet Sabbatarians adore legalism and desire to put a yoke on our necks.

1 John 5:3 - "...his commands are not burdensome." yet you call those that simply promote God's commands as binding, "a yoke on our necks"? The yoke is keeping the law IN ORDER TO GAIN SALVATION.

It's not legalism as it is not required for salvation, but is a natural act when living according to the Spirit and dead to the flesh. A look at Romans may help you.