Evidence for God from Science

Of course what God did is ok within his defined morality, I am not sure whose standard you are holding him too but if it is your own then well

Dan this discussion was not actually aimed towards moral values althought these are in question and important, but more towards the ambivalence of God's behavior.


You are saying thet God knows exactly what he is doing and that we should follow his commands as blind people. I don't agree with such behavior.
More than that, if you analyze human behavior, you will notice that God's commands have nothing divine, but more like human written all over it.

There are more logical explanations for those commands rather than "God knows what he is doing and God is passing judgement". You choose to have blind faith in God. I choose to trust my own judgement.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said follow blindly.

I said God had sufficient moral reason for taking a life.


If we want to stay on topic like you say then God never said do not kill he said do not murder, big difference.

Dan

I said God had sufficient moral reason for taking a life.

Sufficient moral reason for taking a life?

What is that?

BryanH wrote:

I said God had sufficient moral reason for taking a life.

Sufficient moral reason for taking a life?

What is that?

The reason is that God's ultimate plan is for our salvation through Christ's death on the cross, for that to happen he had to build a light on a hill (Israel) in a sea of debauchery .

Otherwise we would suffer the second death and be separated from God's goodness which is far worse than physical death which in the whole scheme of things is a very small blip in eternity.

That is a morally sufficient reason in my book.

Dan

The whole notion of "Does God have cause to take a life" ( or command that one or more be taken) is an interesting one.
God is very much in that "damn if you do, damn if you don't" category:
If He commands the taking of the life of an unrighteous person or people, God is homicidal.
If He doesn't, He is neglectful.
Personally I am kind of on the fence with this one:
There are times I wish God would ZAP anyone or any people that are causing trouble, that are unrighteous.
Then I realize how many times that could be me or people I love, so I am glad He doesn't do that anymore.

The whole notion of "Does God have cause to take a life" ( or command that one or more be taken) is an interesting one.
God is very much in that "damn if you do, damn if you don't" category:
If He commands the taking of the life of an unrighteous person or people, God is homicidal.
If He doesn't, He is neglectful.
Personally I am kind of on the fence with this one:
There are times I wish God would ZAP anyone or any people that are causing trouble, that are unrighteous.
Then I realize how many times that could be me or people I love, so I am glad He doesn't do that anymore.

I understand your point and all, but all I was trying to say is that bible history is more consistent with human psychology rather than with a divine command. This is more a matter of how you choose to see and interpret some actions and behavior.
MY OPINION is that the Bible is not God inspired at all, so you probably understand why I say such a thing.

I would prefer a God that could zap all the bad people away as well.

BryanH wrote:

The whole notion of "Does God have cause to take a life" ( or command that one or more be taken) is an interesting one.
God is very much in that "damn if you do, damn if you don't" category:
If He commands the taking of the life of an unrighteous person or people, God is homicidal.
If He doesn't, He is neglectful.
Personally I am kind of on the fence with this one:
There are times I wish God would ZAP anyone or any people that are causing trouble, that are unrighteous.
Then I realize how many times that could be me or people I love, so I am glad He doesn't do that anymore.

I understand your point and all, but all I was trying to say is that bible history is more consistent with human psychology rather than with a divine command. This is more a matter of how you choose to see and interpret some actions and behavior.
MY OPINION is that the Bible is not God inspired at all, so you probably understand why I say such a thing.

I would prefer a God that could zap all the bad people away as well.

Regardless of how you view the inspiration of the bible, it is and always has been Gods Word through Human words.
And these words are interpreted through our human understanding.
Many people believe that the books and letters in the bible being Inspired by God via the HS means that somehow the writers AND editors AND those that came after and copied, were infalliable or that they didn't add to the various books based on their understanding at the time.
To be honest I don't knwo WHY people think that today because I don't think they thought that way in the past.
Even the bible canon was not set till much later and the likes of Jude quoted from books that many NOW don't view as inspired.

BryanH wrote:

The whole notion of "Does God have cause to take a life" ( or command that one or more be taken) is an interesting one.
God is very much in that "damn if you do, damn if you don't" category:
If He commands the taking of the life of an unrighteous person or people, God is homicidal.
If He doesn't, He is neglectful.
Personally I am kind of on the fence with this one:
There are times I wish God would ZAP anyone or any people that are causing trouble, that are unrighteous.
Then I realize how many times that could be me or people I love, so I am glad He doesn't do that anymore.

I understand your point and all, but all I was trying to say is that bible history is more consistent with human psychology rather than with a divine command. This is more a matter of how you choose to see and interpret some actions and behavior.
MY OPINION is that the Bible is not God inspired at all, so you probably understand why I say such a thing.

I would prefer a God that could zap all the bad people away as well.

So what would the psychology of a book be like if it was written by God?

How do you differentiate between inspired works and non inspired and what are your reference points?

I think one of the biggest problems for non believers is that they read the Bible in small snippets, this causes an issue because they miss out on the big picture of what the Bible is trying to say.



Dan

BryanH wrote:I would prefer a God that could zap all the bad people away as well.

In other words, a god made of your own imagination. I think you're already worshiping him Bryan.

So what would the psychology of a book be like if it was written by God?

How do you differentiate between inspired works and non inspired and what are your reference points?

There is no reference point for God.

All I am saying that the behavior displayed in the Bible by people who claim that God gave them commands, well, is more consistent with human reference points.

I think one of the biggest problems for non believers is that they read the Bible in small snippets, this causes an issue because they miss out on the big picture of what the Bible is trying to say.

When I first joined this forum, that would have been true. Since then I have done some reading about it.

I never said anything about the big picture of the bible: I said many times here ==> The Bible is a great book and it teaches us a lot of useful and good things, but that doesn't mean that it is God's word.

In other words, a god made of your own imagination. I think you're already worshiping him Bryan.

I have a vivid imagination:))

BryanH wrote:All I am saying that the behavior displayed in the Bible by people who claim that God gave them commands, well, is more consistent with human reference points.

Sound more like assertion to me, to make that assumption you would need to know the nature of God and how he operates and have some sort of inspired work to compare with.

Dan

Sound more like assertion to me, to make that assumption you would need to know the nature of God and how he operates and have some sort of inspired work to compare with.

Sound more like assertion to me, to make that assumption you would need to know the nature of God and how he operates and have some sort of inspired work to compare with.

BryanH wrote:

Sound more like assertion to me, to make that assumption you would need to know the nature of God and how he operates and have some sort of inspired work to compare with.

Sound more like assertion to me, to make that assumption you would need to know the nature of God and how he operates and have some sort of inspired work to compare with.

Well please explain how you know that it is not inspired and is the work of man if you have no standard to hold it to?

If I have never seen an elephant before and I come across a pile of dung and conclude that it was a giraffe I would be wrong because I had no knowledge of the elephant.
The same would apply to God, if you have no knowledge of God how can you conclude that it is not the work of God.

Dan

@Dan

My point was: how do you know that Bible is inspired by God if you have no previous reference point?

BryanH wrote:@Dan

My point was: how do you know that Bible is inspired by God if you have no previous reference point?

Because of the truth claims contained within the Bible which sets it apart from any other religious text.

Here is a link http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ntro3.html

There is a wealth of information on the main site especially in the answers for atheists section.

Dan