Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Callisto wrote:

Katabole wrote: I don't know if God created the arc angels with the ability to know fear. It leads to a conundrum of sorts because a question I asked myself a number of years ago which I didn't have a satisfactory response for (and I don't believe there is a satisfactory response for it) was, Have the angels Gabriel and Michael ever sinned because the Bible claims that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. If they did, when did they and what did they do?

I always thought that the "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" bit was about humanity, not angels or other celestial beings. Otherwise all the angels would be fallen, would they not? Further I think that (in a middle-knowledge Molinist view) that God created the angels and humanity with the ability to choose if they want to abide by him - but God knows that many will refuse and could be said to be "destined". They were still given a choice but also destined because it may be that in any circumstance God put Lucifer, the other fallen angels, and human beings in, they would always choose to disobey God - therefore a "predestined" situation.

Callisto, I think the context of Romans 3 makes it pretty clear that the "all" in "all have sinned" refers to humanity. Adding angels to the mix, is clearly adding something that wasn't intended. Just look at Romans 3:22-23: 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Unless angels are Jews and Gentiles...

That's more or less what I said in the first sentence. I think what I'm interested is the matter of lack of salvation for angels as opposed to humans and why this is. I wonder if it's something to do with being a purely spiritual being rather than a spiritual/physical being like we are... or a separate nature apart from these things entirely.

RickD wrote:Callisto, I think the context of Romans 3 makes it pretty clear that the "all" in "all have sinned" refers to humanity. Adding angels to the mix, is clearly adding something that wasn't intended. Just look at Romans 3:22-23: 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Unless angels are Jews and Gentiles...

Callisto wrote:That's more or less what I said in the first sentence. I think what I'm interested is the matter of lack of salvation for angels as opposed to humans and why this is. I wonder if it's something to do with being a purely spiritual being rather than a spiritual/physical being like we are... or a separate nature apart from these things entirely.

I have thought about this along those lines as well. But scripture does say:

1Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1John 3:8 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If angels are going to be judged, then God holds them accountable for their actions, whatever actions they might be, so evidently they will be offered salvation to either accept or reject Christ come the great white throne judgment. Otherwise, why would they be judged? Lucifer sinned from the very beginning as it states in the above verse. He was an angel and not human. Therefore angels can sin. The only one who hasn't sinned is God; I don't believe Christ did, could or would sin. Maybe the angels Michael and Gabriel have the choice to sin but simply never have. I think this is a question I'll have to inquire about in the future with the Almighty if given that opportunity.

Katabole wrote:

RickD wrote:Callisto, I think the context of Romans 3 makes it pretty clear that the "all" in "all have sinned" refers to humanity. Adding angels to the mix, is clearly adding something that wasn't intended. Just look at Romans 3:22-23: 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Unless angels are Jews and Gentiles...

Callisto wrote:That's more or less what I said in the first sentence. I think what I'm interested is the matter of lack of salvation for angels as opposed to humans and why this is. I wonder if it's something to do with being a purely spiritual being rather than a spiritual/physical being like we are... or a separate nature apart from these things entirely.

I have thought about this along those lines as well. But scripture does say:

1Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1John 3:8 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If angels are going to be judged, then God holds them accountable for their actions, whatever actions they might be, so evidently they will be offered salvation to either accept or reject Christ come the great white throne judgment. Otherwise, why would they be judged? Lucifer sinned from the very beginning as it states in the above verse. He was an angel and not human. Therefore angels can sin. The only one who hasn't sinned is God; I don't believe Christ did, could or would sin. Maybe the angels Michael and Gabriel have the choice to sin but simply never have. I think this is a question I'll have to inquire about in the future with the Almighty if given that opportunity.

Katabole, how do you know that angels will be judged for their salvation. Perhaps they will be judged by us, to determine their rewards. The bible says hell was made for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
The angels that rebelled, are destined for hell. The angels that didn't rebel, are where God created them to be. The non-fallen angels(for lack of a better term) don't need redemption. They are where they were created to be.