Evidence for God from Science

So tempted to, but I won't grab the bait to comment on those that very well might (and DO!).

Let's see how much will power and self control you have.

HOWEVER, if He did such things, He would have to be an entirely different God than what He has revealed about Himself in Scripture. His Holy character and how He ultimately sees things DO NOT CHANGE!

ultimate777 wrote:Can God absolutely decide what is good and what is evil?

If not why not?

If so, does He ever change things like that to suit his purposes? Then does He change them right back afterwards?

There were laws the King of Persia could not change in the Book of Esther IIRC. But the KIng changed one anyhow.

When we consider WHY good is good and evil is evil....we are making reference to an OBJECTIVE standard that goes beyond our feelings, opinion, and desires. We make appeal to ULTIMATE standards of right from wrong otherwise, we are only resorting to the subjection opinions of man ..and if we dont make appeal to Objective Moral Laws then there is essentially no objective difference between what a Mother Theresa did and what Hitler did unless we can objectively define WHY some action is good and WHY some action is evil.

This STANDARD for determining this , is none other than the very character, person, and nature of God himself. WHen we determine what is the TRUTH behind deciding whether something is good or evil , we apply Websters definition of Truth which is :'Fidelity toward the original' . In other words, we see how it stacks up to THE ORIGINAL...the Original being : GOD himself. So, lets take some examples ---

1. We know that Lying is always wrong because there is no fidelity to the orginal : God is Truth and cannot lie .

2. We know that Adultery is always wrong because there is no fidelity to the original : God is purity and wants us to live out sexually pure lives.

3. We know that Murder is always wrong because ........: God is love and made us to be loving toward one another never taking innocent life. And because God created human life to be his highest act of love .

4. We know that Cheating is always wrong because.............. : God is moral and just and never operates with deception.

5. We know that incest is always wrong because............ : God doesnt represent sexual perversion in any form ; he made Parents to protect their children and never to violate their trust and dependence.


Its not that man makes the moral rules...its that man DISCOVERS the objective moral rules/laws by looking toward THE highest objective moral standard there is ...and that is the Creator himself --- his very character, person, and intrinsic nature . We dont call something wrong 'because The Bible said so' or 'because the Koran said so' or 'because Mother Theresa said so' or 'because the 10 commandments said so' or ' because the Humanist Manifesto said so' ........its because of WHAT GOD IS .

And no, he never changes 'to suit his purposes' because he cannot change from what his intrinsic character/person/nature is -- he is the changeLESS Creator in whom we can have full and complete trust in as the absolute truth .
He will never ever condone that which is not according to his very nature -- he is ultimate and infinite in morality , truth, and justice. ANd our Founding Fathers recognized this when they penned the Declaration of Independence making reference to the Creator and how we are endowed with certain inalienable rights because of being fashioned in the very image of our Creator ... we all have been given an objective Moral Law to know what is really right from wrong (and why) . Its just that depraved Man wishes to suppress that, ignore that , and re-define that to accomplish his own personal ulterior motives.

Hope that helps .

We have to be careful when applying SOME absolutes to God’s decrees:

1. We know that Lying is always wrong because there is no fidelity to the orginal : God is Truth and cannot lie .

God does not demand that we cooperate with those of evil intentions and purposes. To the Nazis searching for Jews, a man tells them, “No sir, we’ve not seen any Jews around here for many days now.” (All the while terrified that the family of Jews he has hidden in the basement will be discovered). In this case, lying is not only justified, but is a far greater good which God can honor.

2. We know that Adultery is always wrong because there is no fidelity to the original : God is purity and wants us to live out sexually pure lives.

ALWAYS true!

3. We know that Murder is always wrong because ........: God is love and made us to be loving toward one another never taking innocent life. And because God created human life to be his highest act of love.

ALWAYS true!

4. We know that Cheating is always wrong because.............. : God is moral and just and never operates with deception.

Yes, God IS ALWAYS moral and just. But NO, he DOES sometimes deceive those of evil intentions. But one example, from 2 Thessalonians 2: 11-12: “Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

5. We know that incest is always wrong because............ : God doesnt represent sexual perversion in any form ; he made Parents to protect their children and never to violate their trust and dependence.

Depends upon how we define incest. Between parents and children? ALWAYS wrong! However, who but a sibling would Adam and Eve’s offspring have married? Early on, siblings, cousins and close relatives would have been amongst the only choices for marriage partners.

Genesis 38 tells us: “Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to YOUR BROTHER’S WIFE and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. And WHAT HE DID WAS WICKED IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD, and he put him to death also.”

Note that Abraham’s precious Sarah was HIS HALF SISTER! (Genesis 20:12)

However, eventually, as the human gene pool degenerated (likely to the effects of “The Fall,” God eventually forbade relationships previously allowed (Leviticus 18:6-18), as they became potentially dangerous due to a lack of genetic diversity along with the associated possible birth defects and inherited health problems.

So, God clearly has rules and commandments that are for a period of time, and some that were ALWAYS meant to stand forever (Those against rape, murder, idolatry, etc.)

jlay wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:So, not even God can make something true and false at the same time?

If God can't do that, where does it end?

I suppose He couldn't turn bread into His flesh, or wine into His blood and make it still bread and wine, also?

I don't think He chooses to do so, but I think He could if He wanted to.

You going to tell him he can't?

You are looking at this wrong. God can't do what is logically absurd, such as create a square circle. A square circle is not a thing. Something can not be true and false at the same time. It is an absurdity. It isn't a possibility. What is true can not be false in the same thing, and same way at the same time. Study up on the law of non-contradiction for more info.

Who the heck are you to tell God what and what not is logically absurd or what He can and cannot do? I suppose the theory of relativity is invalid if you cannot understand it.
And if your comeback is that you are telling me not God, what difference does it make? He still hears.

This is a matter of understanding the nature of God. We tend to think that truth is some trait added on to God. It isn't. God is truth. God is goodness. God is love.


truth isn't a part of God.

Say what?