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Re: Romans 9:14-24
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:03 am
by Philip
Neo-X wrote: "I think hardening of heart is more of a figure of speech, like saying, love with all your heart, literally speaking we know the heart is a pumping machine that regulates blood in the body so the heart does't think or believe anything. This may lead to elsewhere but my point is, sometimes we wrongly interpret the figure of speech as it is used. God hardening their hearts is simply letting them be what they want to be and not interfering. Hardening of heart results as the consequence of sin and the agreement to carry it forward without being answerable to anyone. In English as they say you are dead set on something. It means being stubborn beyond reason and that is what I think hardening of heart means.
When the authors use such expressions, most of the time they do it to show God's sovereignty above all, his omniscient and merciful nature."
The hardening of Pharaoh's heart was certainly not JUST "letting them be what they want to be and not interfering." I believe that in this case, beyond whatever hardening God had done to Pharaoh's already, permanently SELF-hardened heart, He also clearly hardened Pharaoh's RESOLVE of will to resist. From his court officials to his army's leaders to the slaves and peasants in the fields, it was obvious that an all-powerful God was decimating Egypt, one plague at a time. The pressure on Pharaoh from all of the suffering and devastation to let Israel go must have been incredibly immense. I'm sure there were plots about to have him killed. Crops and water supplies were ruined, etc. And Pharaoh certainly knew that the plagues would probably not stop until he released them. So I don't think Pharaoh would have had the strength of will to hold out out nearly so long, unless God had hardened his will and resolve to resist. And thus the world-renowned miracles of this amazing arc of events would not have been forever famous or have been as obvious to those who experienced them that God is truly all powerful and in control of all.
Re: Romans 9:14-24
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:09 am
by PaulSacramento
Philip wrote:Neo-X wrote: "I think hardening of heart is more of a figure of speech, like saying, love with all your heart, literally speaking we know the heart is a pumping machine that regulates blood in the body so the heart does't think or believe anything. This may lead to elsewhere but my point is, sometimes we wrongly interpret the figure of speech as it is used. God hardening their hearts is simply letting them be what they want to be and not interfering. Hardening of heart results as the consequence of sin and the agreement to carry it forward without being answerable to anyone. In English as they say you are dead set on something. It means being stubborn beyond reason and that is what I think hardening of heart means.
When the authors use such expressions, most of the time they do it to show God's sovereignty above all, his omniscient and merciful nature."
The hardening of Pharaoh's heart was certainly not JUST "letting them be what they want to be and not interfering." I believe that in this case, beyond whatever hardening God had done to Pharaoh's already, permanently SELF-hardened heart, He also clearly hardened Pharaoh's RESOLVE of will to resist. From his court officials to his army's leaders to the slaves and peasants in the fields, it was obvious that an all-powerful God was decimating Egypt, one plague at a time. The pressure on Pharaoh from all of the suffering and devastation to let Israel go must have been incredibly immense. I'm sure there were plots about to have him killed. Crops and water supplies were ruined, etc. And Pharaoh certainly knew that the plagues would probably not stop until he released them. So I don't think Pharaoh would have had the strength of will to hold out out nearly so long, unless God had hardened his will and resolve to resist. And thus the world-renowned miracles of this amazing arc of events would not have been forever famous or have been as obvious to those who experienced them that God is truly all powerful and in control of all.
That may will be the case in this SPECIFIC case since God may have wanted to make a statement.
Of course God had used Egypt before and used it after, as He used Babylon and so many other agents.
Re: Romans 9:14-24
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:36 pm
by neo-x
Philip ยป Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:03 pm
Neo-X wrote: "I think hardening of heart is more of a figure of speech, like saying, love with all your heart, literally speaking we know the heart is a pumping machine that regulates blood in the body so the heart does't think or believe anything. This may lead to elsewhere but my point is, sometimes we wrongly interpret the figure of speech as it is used. God hardening their hearts is simply letting them be what they want to be and not interfering. Hardening of heart results as the consequence of sin and the agreement to carry it forward without being answerable to anyone. In English as they say you are dead set on something. It means being stubborn beyond reason and that is what I think hardening of heart means.
When the authors use such expressions, most of the time they do it to show God's sovereignty above all, his omniscient and merciful nature."
The hardening of Pharaoh's heart was certainly not JUST "letting them be what they want to be and not interfering." I believe that in this case, beyond whatever hardening God had done to Pharaoh's already, permanently SELF-hardened heart, He also clearly hardened Pharaoh's RESOLVE of will to resist. From his court officials to his army's leaders to the slaves and peasants in the fields, it was obvious that an all-powerful God was decimating Egypt, one plague at a time. The pressure on Pharaoh from all of the suffering and devastation to let Israel go must have been incredibly immense. I'm sure there were plots about to have him killed. Crops and water supplies were ruined, etc. And Pharaoh certainly knew that the plagues would probably not stop until he released them. So I don't think Pharaoh would have had the strength of will to hold out out nearly so long, unless God had hardened his will and resolve to resist. And thus the world-renowned miracles of this amazing arc of events would not have been forever famous or have been as obvious to those who experienced them that God is truly all powerful and in control of all.
It may be the case though I do not think this was the case. My own understanding is that it was a battle of authority. The point was to go as far as one could go and in the end concede. It is like when a big fighter can arm wrestle out a smaller fighter not until the fighter gives up. God pushed him harder, but i do not believe he made pharaoh's heart hardened by some divine intervention upon his will and thoughts or made that decision for him or something like that. To me it is more like he gave pharaoh every chance to get angry at him and pharaoh took the bait. In that sense he hardened his heart but that is only as we put it in words. For instance, if I call you out to fight and throw stones at your house and windows, there will come a point where you will have that anger, that hardening of heart and you will come out. And if I am persistent in my assault, you will have no course but to be more angry on me day after day. This is how I see God hardened pharaoh's heart.