Ahmadinejad: We will destroy Israel soon

[Stygian]

I disagree with that too.. Ahmadinejad does have power and has most of the support of the conservative party. Sure you could advocate that the greens party opposes him, but that is the smaller group at this time.. Ahmadinejad is very much a threat and is crazy enough to do anything.

Ok. What power does he have that's dangerous? And no... he's not doing well with popularity at all: http://english.alarabiya.net/views/2012 ... 99485.html He's even on his way out of the presidency. And are you going under the 70% approval? That was a figure from 2006. It's been declining since 2007:http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread263177/pg1 and today, here's a graph of approval ratings amongst world leaders.



Yup. Lower than Raúl Castro. (SOURCE: http://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/wps/ ... arometer21)

And in addition...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myVPwtmImlM There's a video of protesters mobbing his car... while he's still inside. Yeah, he's so popular.

So, if you refute something else I say, I'd like to see sources.

[Philip]

Meaningless and speculative babble!

Ahmadinejad simply serves the purposes of the Supreme Leader and the mullahs that run Iran. The very second he is seen as not serving their motives, they will orchestrate his removal. The fact remains that those truly in charge have allowed Ahmadinejad's threats to bring them to the imminent and dangerously real possibility that any night now could bring a devastating attack by the Israelis. They are LONG past mere posturing calculated to gain advantages. This is the enormous fear being expressed by defense analysts and diplomats throughout America, Europe and the Mideast (and current speculation is that such an attack may well come before the American election). Or a horrible and prolonged war - which they and the oil-dependent world can ill afford.

It would be (and IS) absolute madness to allow a mere powerless figurehead's loose mouth to risk such devastation, and yet Iran's true leaders have nonetheless mindlessly allowed their president to continue his "annihilate Israel" rhetoric. The fact that they would risk igniting the fuse of what will likely be a devastating war shows just precisely how insane Iran's REAL leaders truly are. And no sanctions or diplomacy have really changed anything, as Iran has only used these to buy time. Clearly, Israel takes Iran's president and religious leadership dead seriously - which is precisely what has the analysts and diplomats in great fear. After so much diplomacy, carrot's and sticks, Israel is unwilling to further risk that the Iranians are merely posturing. Israel knows that every delay in action gives the Iranian's potentially more offensive advantage. These two nations stand at the brink!

[Stygian]

Meaningless and speculative babble!

How is saying his popularity is plummeting speculative? It's 100% true! Are you here to dismiss every bit of evidence I claim without using evidence yourself?

Ahmadinejad simply serves the purposes of the Supreme Leader and the mullahs that run Iran. The very second he is seen as not serving their motives, they will orchestrate his removal. The fact remains that those truly in charge have allowed Ahmadinejad's threats to bring them to the imminent and dangerously real possibility that any night now could bring a devastating attack by the Israelis. They are LONG past mere posturing calculated to gain advantages. This is the enormous fear being expressed by defense analysts and diplomats throughout America, Europe and the Mideast (and current speculation is that such an attack may well come before the American election). Or a horrible and prolonged war - which they and the oil-dependent world can ill afford.

"Speculative and meaningless babble!" (hey, you said it, not me) Prove to me ANY of this. Send me a news article! Send me a statement of the mullahs' motives! Send me evidence of how militarily or politically Iran is a threat! Remember, he's about 15th in power; not even in the top 5. Pretty much all his superiors are capable of vetoing everything he says. Yes, he hasn't been impeached yet, but they've tried: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/world ... wanted=all, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... calls.html Iran needs to go through the same political loops than America has to to impeach somebody. Maybe a bit mor understanding regarding the Iranian system of governance would suit you.

It would be (and IS) absolute madness to allow a mere powerless figurehead's loose mouth to risk such devastation, and yet Iran's true leaders have nonetheless mindlessly allowed their president to continue his "annihilate Israel" rhetoric. The fact that they would risk igniting the fuse of what will likely be a devastating war shows just precisely how insane Iran's REAL leaders truly are. And no sanctions or diplomacy have really changed anything, as Iran has only used these to buy time. Clearly, Israel takes Iran's president and religious leadership dead seriously - which is precisely what has the analysts and diplomats in great fear. After so much diplomacy, carrot's and sticks, Israel is unwilling to further risk that the Iranians are merely posturing. Israel knows that every delay in action gives the Iranian's potentially more offensive advantage. These two nations stand at the brink!

First off, did you not hear my link about the whole 'destroy Israel' thing being a tragic mistranslation? Therefore, I'm skeptical about everything he says regarding the destruction of Israel. Initially he called for a regime change, which isn't exactly an unusual thing in politics. Also... "offensive advantage?" Like what?

Overall, once again, you miss my point completely. I'm asserting that Ahmadinejad is in himself powerless to do anything to Israel. The reason people are paying attention to him is because the West is. The reason Iran is any trouble at all is because of this. Israel is considering attacking, eh? Well... maybe they're wrong! They're done similar things in the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera Militarily, Iran is a pretty pathetic force. They're far from being the next Nazis, especially considering the public's distaste for Ahmadinejad himself.

If anybody is spouting out "meaningless or speculative babble" it's you.

[Philip]

First off, did you not hear my link about the whole 'destroy Israel' thing being a tragic mistranslation? Therefore, I'm skeptical about everything he says regarding the destruction of Israel. Initially he called for a regime change, which isn't exactly an unusual thing in politics. Also... "offensive advantage?" Like what?

I said nothing about Ahmadinejad's popularity plunge. So the public hates him ... blah, blah, blah. The public also hates the mullah's and Supreme Leader - who had dissenters gunned down in the streets and orchestrated kangaroo courts to execute many others. They sent the poor's own children in wave attacks to clear minefields, set up and funded martyr groups to do the very same. It's totally irrelevant what the public thinks about Ahmainejad! The public has no control over its leaders.

My "offensive advantage" comment refers to Iran's threatening rhetoric - which is normally made by tyrants hoping to obtain some strategic advantage. But here all it has done is cost them economically and brought them to the very brink of war.

What IS meaningless babble is speculation over whether or not Iran's leaders are JUST posturing when their president's mouth has them so close to being massively attacked by Israel. The fact is the president could not repeatedly mouth off to the point that he now has Iran on the highly likely precipice of an imminent Israeli attack - certainly his rhetoric could not have gotten to this point without the strong approval of his puppetmasters. Look at the map! The live in a tough neighborhood. And so the Israeli's are no fools when it comes to the intentions of their enemies, nor can they afford to be. It's no speculation that Israel is seriously considering pulling the trigger.

Ever heard of "Operation Babylon?" Israel bombed and destroyed a nuclear reactor in Iraq, in 1981.

The French news agency Agence France-Presse reported last week, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is calling Israel “a cancerous tumor” that, he threatened, will “soon be excised.” He added: “The nations of the region will soon finish off the usurper Zionists. . . . With the grace of God and help of the nations, in the new Middle East there will be no trace of the Americans and Zionists.”

The well-known international human-rights lawyer Irwin Cotler, a former Canadian minister of justice and attorney general, has been making a strenuous effort to remind Western leaders that there is a Genocide Convention that they have an obligation — legal, moral, and strategic — to enforce. He says: “The Iranian regime’s criminal incitement has been persistent, pervasive, and pernicious.” “In particular, this genocidal incitement has intensified and escalated in 2012, with the website of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei declaring that there is religious ‘justification to kill all the Jews and annihilate Israel, and Iran must take the helm.’”

The reason Iran is any trouble at all is because of this. Israel is considering attacking, eh? Well... maybe they're wrong!

No, the reason Iran is in trouble is that its leaders are using/allowing its president to repeatedly ratchet up highly inflammatory and dangerous statements at the same time it is also pursuing nuclear weapons. This despite the sanctions and their increasing isolation by the West.

"Well maybe they're wrong."

Think Israel is willing to risk small nukes being smuggled into it based upon you and others' "maybe?" Or will allow them to build a nuclear shield that will make attacking them (if necessary) much more difficult. Ask the English whether Hitler actually meant what he said about his intentions.

Some people never see a justification for proactive military actions. They want to believe whatever peaceful outcome they entertain in their minds. But do you really think the Iranians want Israel to live in peace and remain in its homeland or not? Do you not believe they will do anything they can get away with to disrupt and contribute to Israel's demise? Do you not recognize the mindless brutality they have brought upon their own people? Do you really need to speculate over such things?

There's a time for thoughtful, exhaustive speculation, and then there's a time for action. Many who have continued in hopeful speculation also failed to prevent catastrophe while they still COULD have.

[Stygian]

I said nothing about Ahmadinejad's popularity plunge. So the public hates him ... blah, blah, blah. The public also hates the mullah's and Supreme Leader - who had dissenters gunned down in the streets and orchestrated kangaroo courts to execute many others. They sent the poor's own children in wave attacks to clear minefields, set up and funded martyr groups to do the very same. It's totally irrelevant what the public thinks about Ahmainejad! The public has no control over its leaders.

Yeah, the whole annihilation of an entire race of people usually works better when they have support from people other than themselves. Just sayin'.

My "offensive advantage" comment refers to Iran's threatening rhetoric - which is normally made by tyrants hoping to obtain some strategic advantage. But here all it has done is cost them economically and brought them to the very brink of war.

Yes. So, Israel should be trembling with fear at the thought of an Iranian invasion, why?

What IS meaningless babble is speculation over whether or not Iran's leaders are JUST posturing when their president's mouth has them so close to being massively attacked by Israel. The fact is the president could not repeatedly mouth off to the point that he now has Iran on the highly likely precipice of an imminent Israeli attack - certainly his rhetoric could not have gotten to this point without the strong approval of his puppetmasters. Look at the map! The live in a tough neighborhood. And so the Israeli's are no fools when it comes to the intentions of their enemies, nor can they afford to be. It's no speculation that Israel is seriously considering pulling the trigger.

Did you miss my articles on impeachment? And the fact he's nearing the end of his 'reign?'

Ever heard of "Operation Babylon?" Israel bombed and destroyed a nuclear reactor in Iraq, in 1981.

Well, well! Evidence that you don't look at my links at all! I posted a Wikipedia article about it, granted it was under the name Operation Opera.

No, the reason Iran is in trouble is that its leaders are using/allowing its president to repeatedly ratchet up highly inflammatory and dangerous statements at the same time it is also pursuing nuclear weapons. This despite the sanctions and their increasing isolation by the West.

He has influence because he's infamous, or rather, we made him infamous. Also, take a look: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... story.html, http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/iran/i ... gramme.htm, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... srael.html

Some people never see a justification for proactive military actions. They want to believe whatever peaceful outcome they entertain in their minds. But do you really think the Iranians want Israel to live in peace and remain in its homeland or not? Do you not believe they will do anything they can get away with to disrupt and contribute to Israel's demise?

A few more additional readings.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... l-1.404227
http://original.antiwar.com/peter-casey ... s-on-iran/
http://lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan251.html
http://lewrockwell.com/crovelli/crovelli67.1.html
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012 ... with-iran/

[Philip]

Stygian, NO, Israel does not fear a conventional invasion from Iran - that's the whole point. Nukes in Iranian hands change everything. And why are you bringing up an invasion by Iran? Plus you keep refuting your own rhetoric about how Iran's president is powerless and about how much he is hated by the public. But why would you think either mattered in the least?

And you might just find some more objective websites to gather info from, than antiwar.com and Patrick J. Buchanan. That is a group that sees all wars as unnecessary and unjust. The bias absolutely screams from its headlines - so much of it anti-U.S. and anti-ANYTHING Republican - yeah, real balanced news. Buchanan (a right-wing nutjob) is a known and long-time Jew hater. I don't have time to read your many linked articles. This is all speculative, as ultimately we can only go with what key intelligence agencies and Israeli, Iranian and Western leaders are saying. And we DO know that Iran is developing nukes, we do know what they say are their intentions towards Israel. They've had plenty of time to backtrack on both, but they continue to pursue both. Once you know you are dealing with unstable, dangerous people that are threatening you great harm, only a fool doesn't take them seriously. And only a fool doesn't act while there is time to do so. Iran is running out of time, and IF Israel acts, it will be its leaders' fault.

And so let me ask: IF YOU knew with no uncertainty that Iran was developing nuclear weapons, do you not think Israel should do all it can to prevent that - INCLUDING war as a last, if necessary, option? Because it sounds as if you wouldn't have taken Hitler seriously either. Do you think a nuke-armed Iran is okay or not?

[Stygian]

Stygian, NO, Israel does not fear a conventional invasion from Iran - that's the whole point. Nukes in Iranian hands change everything. And why are you bringing up an invasion by Iran? Plus you keep refuting your own rhetoric about how Iran's president is powerless and about how much he is hated by the public. But why would you think either mattered in the least?

Aaaaaaand, you lost me. My whole point revolved around the absence of Iranian nuclear weapons. As for the president's power idea, it was merely the initial topic of this thread, so I spoke my mind about it, and tried bringing it up several times. Ahmadinejad is NOT the person to worry about, as he has no authority in areas regarding military or the nuclear program. I fail to see how I've "refuted" my thoughts repeatedly, so I lost you there also.

And you might just find some more objective websites to gather info from, than antiwar.com and Patrick J. Buchanan. That is a group that sees all wars as unnecessary and unjust. The bias absolutely screams from its headlines - so much of it anti-U.S. and anti-ANYTHING Republican - yeah, real balanced news. Buchanan (a right-wing nutjob) is a known and long-time Jew hater. I don't have time to read your many linked articles.

Antiwar is against unjust war, meaning any war not fought in the name of pure self-defense. The term is used to be applied to the opposition to those who instantly resort to it as an answer to solve problems in the world, as many would like to search for peaceful methods. Saying I shouldn't use it to defend my position regarding war is much like saying I shouldn't quote Lewis, Chesterton, or Craig to defend some of my moral beliefs regarding Christianity and the Bible. I've heard plenty of accusations against Patrick J. Buchanan regarding his apparent 'anti-semitism,' but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with every word that exits his mouth. Heck, even Obama caught my attention when he said he'd cease wars in the Mid-East (until he didn't, that is), but that's a whole other debate. Even then, I do think much of what he said makes sense. Since you haven't read what I linked obviously, you really can't say much there. In addition, I've not concluded for myself that he is indeed anti-semite. A lot of people throw that word around at people who simply don't want to give aid to Israel pretty often, so I take it with a grain of salt.

This is all speculative, as ultimately we can only go with what key intelligence agencies and Israeli, Iranian and Western leaders are saying. And we DO know that Iran is developing nukes, we do know what they say are their intentions towards Israel. They've had plenty of time to backtrack on both, but they continue to pursue both. Once you know you are dealing with unstable, dangerous people that are threatening you great harm, only a fool doesn't take them seriously. And only a fool doesn't act while there is time to do so. Iran is running out of time, and IF Israel acts, it will be its leaders' fault.

As Wikipedia would say, [citation needed]. We've consistently found no evidence of nuclear weapons, or even much desire to do so, from Iran. It's not that I don't take anti-Israel groups seriously, as I'm against them. However, it matters whether they have the means to do immeasurable harm, or not. Iran, as I've pointed out before, doesn't seem to be what most would consider a nuclear or military superpower.

And so let me ask: IF YOU knew with no uncertainty that Iran was developing nuclear weapons, do you not think Israel should do all it can to prevent that - INCLUDING war as a last, if necessary, option? Because it sounds as if you wouldn't have taken Hitler seriously either. Do you think a nuke-armed Iran is okay or not?

Yes, as the war would then be one of self-defense on Israel's part. And I don't see how you can compare this to not taking Hitler seriously at all, as Hitler went up in the ranks with the help of the people, brainwashed the entire populous to come to his side, and was even voted into power by those people by promising great things, as in recovering from the disaster that was the Treaty of Versailles, and in addition actively sought out a German empire to take domain over Europe. Ahmadinejad, from what I've seen, isn't that crafty, and not nearly as powerful.

[Gman]

Ok. What power does he have that's dangerous? And no... he's not doing well with popularity at all: http://english.alarabiya.net/views/2012 ... 99485.html He's even on his way out of the presidency. And are you going under the 70% approval? That was a figure from 2006. It's been declining since 2007:http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread263177/pg1 and today, here's a graph of approval ratings amongst world leaders.

So, if you refute something else I say, I'd like to see sources.

What on earth does popularity or approval ratings have to do with anything?? It doesn't even matter if he had 1% of the popular vote. What we have here is a madman in power that says he will do anything to destroy Israel. Even if it means using dirty bombs to destroy Israel...

[Philip]

What on earth does popularity or approval ratings have to do with anything?? It doesn't even matter if he had 1% of the popular vote. What we have here is a madman in power that says he will do anything to destroy Israel. Even if it means using dirty bombs to destroy Israel...

Absolutely!

This shows that: 1) We are not dealing with reasonable people; 2) Those in power have allowed Ahmadinejad to continue such threats to the point that Israel may attack at any moment, and that they are willing to allow such rhetoric to cause the population great hardships and economic costs (through sanctions) and global isolation - and yet they are nonetheless willing to risk the madness of simultaneously risking proactive and devastating strikes by Israel; 3) Their continued lying and stalling over their nuclear activities show they are both untrustworthy and merely buying time; 4) The insanely brutal past decisions of what Iran's leaders are willing to do to their own people, just to stay in power and to further their Quoran-inspired/anti-Israel agenda, should be a warning to what they might well do if they develop nukes; 5) And with mirroring rhetoric of Iran's president continuing to posted on its Supreme Leader's website, Israel would be fools to merely wait until Iran is much dangerous - particularly as it may develop small dirty nukes to become the new IEDs it will distribute to Israel and the West's enemies.

The above are true facts and risks concerning the current situation. No speculation or academic debates change that. Iran has been given plenty of time to reverse its course of nuclear ambitions, and to stop its threats and posturing. If Israel attacks, the blame all rests with the stupidity and madness or Iran's powerbrokers. They know of Israel's holocaust past and determination to NEVER willingly ignore threats that might mean another one - and so they are playing with fire! Iran's leaders are already on a path to hell, and Israel just might make that path a significantly shorter one.

[Stygian]

What on earth does popularity or approval ratings have to do with anything?? It doesn't even matter if he had 1% of the popular vote. What we have here is a madman in power that says he will do anything to destroy Israel. Even if it means using dirty bombs to destroy Israel...

A little late to that post, I see. And in that particular instance, you said he had a majority approval, so I refuted it. Simple as that! That was the original topic, wasn't it?

I disagree with that too.. Ahmadinejad does have power and has most of the support of the conservative party.

And you've yet to show me how the man has any direct power that's harmful to Israel. That was my original point, and nobody has proven it wrong yet, so I'll maintain it.

This shows that: 1) We are not dealing with reasonable people; 2) Those in power have allowed Ahmadinejad to continue such threats to the point that Israel may attack at any moment, and that they are willing to allow such rhetoric to cause the population great hardships and economic costs (through sanctions) and global isolation - and yet they are nonetheless willing to risk the madness of simultaneously risking proactive and devastating strikes by Israel; 3) Their continued lying and stalling over their nuclear activities show they are both untrustworthy and merely buying time; 4) The insanely brutal past decisions of what Iran's leaders are willing to do to their own people, just to stay in power and to further their Quoran-inspired/anti-Israel agenda, should be a warning to what they might well do if they develop nukes; 5) And with mirroring rhetoric of Iran's president continuing to posted on its Supreme Leader's website, Israel would be fools to merely wait until Iran is much dangerous - particularly as it may develop small dirty nukes to become the new IEDs it will distribute to Israel and the West's enemies.

Can you not miss my point that Iran is WEAK? And that Ahmadinejad is a talking head? Sure, maybe he's being used. Sure, maybe Iran does want to destroy Israel. But I put the blame on the hype and attention being paid to Ahmadinejad and Iran's nuclear program in general. I'd love to find an option to attain peace without using violence, and that's what I'm trying to do. I remain skeptical of Iran's nuclear weapon race, or even their ability to destroy Israel.

As for the whole claim of 'those in power' being willing to let Ahmadinejad keep staying stupid garbage, wow. The ol' use crazy violent remarks to lure your enemies to attack your country while those same remarks begin to cause economic and civil damage to the populous causing all of the land to eat itself from the inside out, all while your enemies are threatening to attack it. Best. Strategy. Ever. Again, I say, Israel has held its own in the past, and the weak country of Iran is simply not their biggest worry.

My point isn't about whether Israel should attack, but rather, that Iran is not a Nazi-level superpower like the media likes to say they are.

[Philip]

Can you not miss my point that Iran is WEAK?

Irrelevant! Having nuclear bomb making technology changes the equation, and exponentially multiplies its ability to cause horrific damage through it's network of terrorist sycophants. Whether they are militarily weak in conventional ways doesn't matter - no one is worried much about that.

And that Ahmadinejad is a talking head? Sure, maybe he's being used. Sure, maybe Iran does want to destroy Israel.

Are these not ENOUGH? They already have the desire and motive, all they need now is the one thing everyone is concerned about - nukes!

But I put the blame on the hype and attention being paid to Ahmadinejad and Iran's nuclear program in general.

Hype? Do you know exactly what their program includes? The various intelligence agencies don't think it's hype. Clearly the Israeli's don't. And it's not as if Israel wants another war - certainly not one that could be devastating to them as well. Remember, there may well be other Muslim countries - certainly Muslim mercenaries - that would join the fight. And why have the Iranians repeatedly lied about their nuke program? And backed out of agreements? Do you trust the kind of leaders who have demonstrated their willingness to kill their own people in the streets?

I'd love to find an option to attain peace without using violence, and that's what I'm trying to do.

As would I!

I remain skeptical of Iran's nuclear weapon race, or even their ability to destroy Israel.

And you base this information on ...? You have information not available to the best intelligence agencies?

Again, I say, Israel has held its own in the past, and the weak country of Iran is simply not their biggest worry.

Including if they obtain nukes? Remember, the Iranians' fingerprints are all over just about every little terrorist group in the region - from the direct supplying of arms to financing various groups. Just think what they might do with dirty nukes.

My point isn't about whether Israel should attack, but rather, that Iran is not a Nazi-level superpower like the media likes to say they are.

Does it take a superpower to wreck havoc? Did Bin Laden need to head a superpower to cause enormous devastation and kill so many with the clever execution achieved in JUST ONE mere day? Look at the enormous economic destruction that one day caused. The exponential ratcheting up of security costs. Multiply people like Bin Laden, add in the resources of a state the size of Iran, equip them with the ability to distribute and smuggle in dirty nukes within a country they consistently have made no secret that they would like to destroy - that's a very serious deal. Plus, we're dealing with mindless Islamists - which are far different than secularists like Saddam - who always had the motives of surviving, continuing living the high life, and of feeding his megalomania and bullying. Iran is led by old men who believe martyrdom brings paradise. They are blinded by their fanaticism and hate.

These are why them acquiring nukes is a VERY big deal. It gives them abilities to cause horrendous damage, yet without having formidable, conventional armed forces. And, of course, Israel has BOTH! It's not for no reason that the surrounding Arabs have second thoughts about tangling with them. As well, the leaders of the other Arab nations now have to worry about their own hides - the last thing they need is a war with ANYONE. And yet Iran keeps fanning the flames - wonder why?

[Philip]

Just to clarify, I myself an very wary of war hawks - those just itching to get us into something that will likely be very messy and prolonged. But every situation is different. Saddam himself had to go. But to overthrow the country, to destabilize the entire region, engage in nation building? Stupid, stupid, totally insane. Some tyrants merely need to be contained, certainly wherever that is possible. Economic sanctions or fear of attack will deter many. But then there are the others - like Iran. Right now, I wouldn't want to spend one night in either Iran or Israel, as the immediate situation is THAT dangerous!

[Stygian]

Your entire argument is based on the if Iran gets nukes idea. That has no more credibility than the 'Iraq has nukes' nonsense Bush tried pulling on us years ago.

Irrelevant! Having nuclear bomb making technology changes the equation, and exponentially multiplies its ability to cause horrific damage through it's network of terrorist sycophants. Whether they are militarily weak in conventional ways doesn't matter - no one is worried much about that.

Iran funding and supporting terrorist groups, hm? http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/201 ... l-nbc-news and http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... G020120323

Are these not ENOUGH? They already have the desire and motive, all they need now is the one thing everyone is concerned about - nukes!

They need strength; not just a nuke. The country is in ruins, and I doubt a nuke will make much of a difference. http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/08 ... t-imminent

Hype? Do you know exactly what their program includes? The various intelligence agencies don't think it's hype. Clearly the Israeli's don't. And it's not as if Israel wants another war - certainly not one that could be devastating to them as well. Remember, there may well be other Muslim countries - certainly Muslim mercenaries - that would join the fight. And why have the Iranians repeatedly lied about their nuke program? And backed out of agreements? Do you trust the kind of leaders who have demonstrated their willingness to kill their own people in the streets?

Various intelligence agencies like what? The ones that have confirmed no nuclear weapons? Or the ones that want war with Iran? Lie about the nuclear program? Like what? How they've repeatedly said they are not producing nukes, which has been verified? And at what point do you say I 'trust' them? It's a messed up system, and messed up country in genera, but it's not like America is a paragon of governments, or anything.


A few more links about the nuclear thing, and you can pretty much get away with reading the headlines to a degree:
http://tehrantimes.com/politics/95926-i ... ambassador
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/world ... apons.html

A video if you don't have time to read:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--eQTnqd8Ww

And you base this information on ...?

Evidence. As in all the evidence I've been showing you, but don't have the time to read. So if you can't read what I link you to, then you really are in no place to talk.

Including if they obtain nukes? Remember, the Iranians' fingerprints are all over just about every little terrorist group in the region - from the direct supplying of arms to financing various groups. Just think what they might do with dirty nukes.

Ah, so you can use an 'if' or maybe, but I can't? Name these terrorist groups, maybe? Israel isn't exaclty free of terrorist involvement either.

These are why them acquiring nukes is a VERY big deal. It gives them abilities to cause horrendous damage, yet without having formidable, conventional armed forces. And, of course, Israel has BOTH! It's not for no reason that the surrounding Arabs have second thoughts about tangling with them. As well, the leaders of the other Arab nations now have to worry about their own hides - the last thing they need is a war with ANYONE. And yet Iran keeps fanning the flames - wonder why?

Eh, I'm feeling lazy, so here's some more video links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8sympqlyig
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread819846/pg1

[Gman]

A little late to that post, I see. And in that particular instance, you said he had a majority approval, so I refuted it. Simple as that! That was the original topic, wasn't it?

Sure that was the original topic.. And he still has enough people under him to maintain his power. Just like the other corrupted leaders in the middle east who want to destroy Israel.. They must support the continuation of the Islamic theocracy. That is the core of the problem.

And you've yet to show me how the man has any direct power that's harmful to Israel. That was my original point, and nobody has proven it wrong yet, so I'll maintain it.

That is crazy... If you don't think that Ahmadinejad has any power that is just wrong. Even Hitler himself before he lost most of his support from the German people left going down fighting.

[Stygian]

A little late to that post, I see. And in that particular instance, you said he had a majority approval, so I refuted it. Simple as that! That was the original topic, wasn't it?

Sure that was the original topic.. And he still has enough people under him to maintain his power. Just like the other corrupted leaders in the middle east who want to destroy Israel.. They must support the continuation of the Islamic theocracy. That is the core of the problem.

And you've yet to show me how the man has any direct power that's harmful to Israel. That was my original point, and nobody has proven it wrong yet, so I'll maintain it.

That is crazy... If you don't think that Ahmadinejad has any power that is just wrong. Even Hitler himself before he lost most of his support from the German people left going down fighting.

For the last time, Ahmadinejad is literally 14th in command, and has no authority in military endeavors. That's my point, and nobody has managed to prove me wrong. People who say otherwise have a tragic misunderstanding of the Iranian system of government. Ahamdinejad isn't really a 'leader' in the literal sense! He's just another politician!