RickD wrote:let's look at John 3:5-6: 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that his Jewish birth (born of water) was not going to save him. What Jesus says in verse 6, removes any doubt that Jesus wasn't talking about water baptism. Nicodemus wasn't understanding the spiritual. He was stuck on the physical. Nicodemus didn't understand how someone could be born twice.
Again, you got an improper exegesis.
Jesus was literally answering his question
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
Nicodemus needed clarification on what it means to be "
born again", not simply being born....because....
THE FACT THAT HE IS BORN IS NOT IN QUESTION AND IS INDISPUTABLE.
For example:
If you asked me, "How do I apply for
college again?"
To which I then answer, "Fill out a NEW application, bring it to the admin office for processing"
Not ONCE did we mention any other application, did we?
Infact, what if I clarified further with a trivial statement?
"Your old application is old. This new application is new."
In order for your objection to stand, you have to show that Nicodemus' status as a mortal man was in question or that they were completely oblivious as to what being mortal was.
However, his mortality was not in question. Rather, how one is born again was the question being asked. If his mortality was in question, there would be 2 separate questions, 2 separate answers, 2 different subjects + predicates. However, there is only 1.
Also, do you mind explaining the difference between born of water and born of women according to your view?
Luke 7:28
28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
RickD wrote:Dom, I'm not saying that water baptism is done in some kind of symbolic water. Water baptism(immersion in water) identifies a believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Water baptized believers don't literally die, get buried, and get resurrected during a water baptism ceremony. It's
symbolic.
Water baptism is also an outward profession of what has happened inwardly in a believer. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the inward reality, water baptism is the outward profession of that reality. The inward baptism of the Holy Spirit which happens when one professes faith in Christ.
Again, God saves by the power of the Holy Spirit in a believer. Water baptism, done by hands of men, is a
symbol of the true, saving baptism, done by the hands of God.(And yes, "hands" of God is also symbolic
)
Where is this exegesis at? Everything in the gospels, acts, and so forth is contrary to everything you've stated.
RickD wrote:Dom, living water in John 7:38 is a symbol of the Holy Spirit in a believer. Just like baptism in water symbolizes Holy Spirit baptism.
The water doesn't symbolize anything, Rick. My point is,
living water is not
water
An improper analogy.
Also, in regards to Jesus not baptizing anyone. Might want to look further down the page, guys.
John 3:22-23
22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized
Again, look at verse 26
26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all are coming to Him.”
