Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by RickD »

PaulS wrote:
I think most will agree there are degrees of "practicing Christians", some are bordering on sainthood while others are barely hanging on and most of us are somewhere inbetween, but are there degrees of being Christian?
Paul, I don't see it as "degrees" like you do. IMO, one becomes a Christian when one places his faith in Jesus Christ.(the real, biblical Jesus Christ. Not just any Christ). It's kinda like being pregnant. Either one is pregnant or not. Either one is saved or not. Now there are differing stages of development of an unborn human, just like there are differing "points" of sanctification of a believer.
I mean, is a person who believes in predestination more of a Christian or less?
I believe in predestination, although not in a Calvinist sense. Am I less of a Christian? Is a Calvinist who believes in predestination in their own sense, less of a Christian? Pregnant, Yes or not, no in betweens. Christian, Yes or not, no in betweens.
or what about those that are Christian but fall and then come back or never come back?
Now we're getting into assurance of salvation. That is at least a handful of threads in and of itself. :lol: My argument would be that if one is a believer, he is sealed forever with the indwelling Holy Spirit. So, a believer who falls, may lose some eternal rewards in heaven, but won't lose his salvation.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by PaulSacramento »

I don't agree with the pregnant analogy.
For one thing, it's pretty clear when some IS pregnant and not just for her (typically), not so with being a Christian.
It's also clear that one just can't choose to NOT be pregnant or to be pregnant for that matter.
Perhaps degree is the wrong term, would "type" be better?
Can a believer fall away? some would argue that this person was never a believer to begin with...
Sam1995
Valued Member
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by Sam1995 »

PaulSacramento wrote:I don't agree with the pregnant analogy.
For one thing, it's pretty clear when some IS pregnant and not just for her (typically), not so with being a Christian.
It's also clear that one just can't choose to NOT be pregnant or to be pregnant for that matter.
Perhaps degree is the wrong term, would "type" be better?
Can a believer fall away? some would argue that this person was never a believer to begin with...
Have to disagree there my friend. There are no degrees to Christianity because we are either judged righteous and perfect by the blood of Jesus, or if we rejected Him, our sins are judged accordingly. If that's the way God looks at it, that's the way I'll look at it.

Not sure the word "type" would fit, just because type makes me refer to denominations lol. You'd have to explain the use of the word every time you mention it! :lol:

Can a believer fall away? Of course, we are people and therefore we are not perfect, this gives us the "ability" (hate to use that word here) to fall away from God, despite His grace being lavished upon us. If a person's family all die in a car accident, for example, and the person falls away from God over a period of time because of the hurt, pain, and possibly guilt that the person feels from that event. It doesn't mean that the person's faith was not at one point real.

SB y:-?
"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." - C.S Lewis
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by RickD »

PaulS wrote:
Perhaps degree is the wrong term, would "type" be better?
"Type" of Christians as far as what?
Can a believer fall away?
Can a believer fall away? Yes. Can a believer fall away to the point of losing his salvation? I would say no.
some would argue that this person was never a believer to begin with...
Yes, some would argue that.
I don't agree with the pregnant analogy.
Dangit! Maybe I should've used another analogy. Like an analogy with back bacon, or hockey, or high taxes, eh? :mrgreen:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by PaulSacramento »

Food for thought guys, thanks.
I get into discussions with atheists and those that used to be JW's and are now atheists a lot so I appreciate your patience when I bring up points that aren't typically orthodox :)
Sam1995
Valued Member
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by Sam1995 »

I think it's great that you do bring up those sorts of points though, because they generally are things that I wouldn't think of, which is great because it is food for thought for me also!

Blessed to be a blessing!

SB :)
"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." - C.S Lewis
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by PaulSacramento »

Sam1995 wrote:I think it's great that you do bring up those sorts of points though, because they generally are things that I wouldn't think of, which is great because it is food for thought for me also!

Blessed to be a blessing!

SB :)
Drives my theology professor crazy sometimes BUT He says that it does give me a perspective that most don't have.
As long as I don't become a heretic, !!! LOL !
Sam1995
Valued Member
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by Sam1995 »

PaulSacramento wrote:
Sam1995 wrote:I think it's great that you do bring up those sorts of points though, because they generally are things that I wouldn't think of, which is great because it is food for thought for me also!

Blessed to be a blessing!

SB :)
Drives my theology professor crazy sometimes BUT He says that it does give me a perspective that most don't have.
As long as I don't become a heretic, !!! LOL !
Well, hopefully you have enough other crazy people around you to stop you from becoming a heretic, ain't that right RickD? :lol:

SB :amen:
"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." - C.S Lewis
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by RickD »

Sam1995 wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Sam1995 wrote:I think it's great that you do bring up those sorts of points though, because they generally are things that I wouldn't think of, which is great because it is food for thought for me also!

Blessed to be a blessing!

SB :)
Drives my theology professor crazy sometimes BUT He says that it does give me a perspective that most don't have.
As long as I don't become a heretic, !!! LOL !
Well, hopefully you have enough other crazy people around you to stop you from becoming a heretic, ain't that right RickD? :lol:

SB :amen:
Sam, PaulS lives in Canada. There are plenty of crazy people there. :wave:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by PaulSacramento »

It's cause it's freaking cold, eh !
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by RickD »

PaulSacramento wrote:It's cause it's freaking cold, eh !
It's too cold! Everyone get in the hoose, eh!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Sam1995
Valued Member
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by Sam1995 »

PaulSacramento wrote:It's cause it's freaking cold, eh !
Put a coat on. :eugeek:

SB
"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." - C.S Lewis
coldblood
Recognized Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:07 pm
Christian: Yes

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by coldblood »

Perhaps anyone who considers themself to be a Christian, and who devoutly follows the teachings of Christ to the best of their understanding (and take their word for it), should be recognized and accepted as a Christian. That is, should any person who faithfully follows Christ to the light that has been given them, even if they fail to adhere to some organization’s litany of cardinal doctrines, be considered and labeled a percentage Christian?

If doctrinal agreement were required to share the Christian umbrella, then Catholics (say, Roman Catholics as example) and most Protestants would be hard put to find room for each other. Offhand, a few cardinal beliefs that probably separate the majority of Catholics from the majority of Protestants would include: basing doctrinal beliefs on church tradition as well as the Bible; the inclusion of the Apocrypha; purgatory; the belief in organizational infallibility; prayers for the dead; prayers to dead saints - to Virgin Mary; enhancing worship ambiance with graven images; infant baptism; transubstantiation; the need to confess one’s sins to a priest; the need to do penance for one’s sins; etc.

If we are to measure Christians by the “degree” to which they conform doctrinally, it would seem to be a daunting task.
User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

RickD wrote:Sam, PaulS lives in Canada. There are plenty of crazy people there. :wave:
Who you wavin' at, RickyD?

FL :boxing:
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Science article about evangelicals and catholics

Post by RickD »

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
RickD wrote:Sam, PaulS lives in Canada. There are plenty of crazy people there. :wave:
Who you wavin' at, RickyD?

FL :boxing:
FL, were your ears burnin? :lol:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Post Reply