Page 2 of 5
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:29 am
by RickD
So John, all you got out of B. W.'s post is that he didn't refer to you by your correct name? Do you have any desire at all to learn?
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:25 am
by B. W.
1stjohn0666 wrote:...Please use my screen name and if you wish you can disregard the numbers "1stjohnny" is rather offensive to me. John works just fine which is my given name.
Isaiah 57:15, "
The One who is highly honored lives forever. His name is Holy. He says, "I live in a high and Holy place. But I also live with anyone who turns away from his sins. I live with anyone who is not proud. I give new life to him. I give it to anyone who turns away from his sins." NIrV
Rev 2:17, '
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.' NASB
-
-
-
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:50 pm
by 1stjohn0666
RickD wrote:So John, all you got out of B. W.'s post is that he didn't refer to you by your correct name? Do you have any desire at all to learn?
I read the post. The learning is not what I am after, rather it is what the majority of people believe here. I disagree with most of the Christology, but am willing to see it how you see it.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:05 pm
by RickD
Hi 1stjohn,
I stumbled across this article while I was searching on Reasons.org. I thought you might be interested:
http://www.reasons.org/articles/christ- ... son-part-1
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:49 am
by PaulSacramento
Here is an important issue that we have to make note of:
If God is NOT a "triune being" then He is a singular one and as such, He is NOT a relational being ( or at least was not one until He created Christ and eventually Us.).
If God is a Triune being then God has been since the very "beginning" a relational being, a being of pure other-centred love.
If God was not like that at some point then God needed to change and "evolve" to being a relational being ( which means He is not God, if by God we mean the highest possible example of a living being).
If God created Christ to be Love by, then God's love wanted or needed love, hence He wasn't God.
If God created Christ TO Love, then God needed to Love and as such, He was not God.
In short, if God was not a relational being from eternity then at one point He had to become one, ie: Change because He either needed to or wanted to so that means that:
God had to change, God needed or God wanted.
In short, God was NOT a God that was eternal, unchangeable, God NEEDED/WANTED something.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:44 am
by B. W.
Isaiah 44:6, 7 - "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. 7 'Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it; Yes, let him recount it to Me in order, From the time that I established the ancient nation. And let them declare to them the things that are coming And the events that are going to take place." NASB
Rev 19:10, Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." NASB
Rev 1:17, 18 - When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. NASB
Rev 22:13, 14, 15, 16 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." NASB
Rather difficult to ignore who Jesus Claimed himself to be...
Deut 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.
Deut 4:39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. NASB
-
-
-
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:41 am
by 1stjohn0666
RickD wrote:1stjohn wrote:
Is a biblical unitarian a Christian?
A saved Christian? No. A nominal Christian? Yes.
How can one claim to be a Christian if as you say cannot be saved?
As I understand, Jesus was a unitary monotheistic Jew and believed in the one God of Israel Mark 12:29.
Jesus is also God.
Jesus is also God? Would not that make two Gods in plain language and against the Creed of Israel Deut 6:4; Mark 12:29. I keep reading and Jesus does not correct the unitary monotheistic Jew who was questioning Jesus.... The Lord Messiah commends him.
I also very well know that most scrips for support of the deity of Jesus most will go to the Gospel of John, why not Matt, Mark, or Luke?
Here, from Matthew that supports the deity of Christ. Matthew 1:23:
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name [a]Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
You give the Immanuel name which "translated" means God with us, are we to take the definition of a name literally like Jonah which "translated" means dove. So did a dove or a human go to Nineveh?
We know from the same account from Luke 1:31 the Immanuel name is not used, but Jesus. Matt 1:21-23 vs 22 brings us to the Immanuel usage in Isa 7:14, that child was not named Immanuel Isa 8:1-10 but Mahershalalhashbaz
From Luke. Luke 1:68:
“Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people
The book of John is used more often to talk about the deity of Jesus, because the book of John makes Jesus' deity so obvious.
1stjohn, If Jesus was only a man, and not God in the flesh, then why does 1 John 4:2 say:
2 By this you know the Spirit of God : every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God
If Jesus is merely a man, and not God in the flesh, then this verse is redundant.
Sure I see the point, however I see it in a different way, "confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" I agree ... "is from God" .. again I agree.
the text does not say "confess that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, is from God"
Won't you believe on the true Jesus Christ, John? He is the only one who can save you from your sins.
I believe that Jesus' God commissioned Jesus to do some work on the Fathers behalf.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:40 am
by PaulSacramento
May I ask you something John?
DO you believe that there was a time that The Father was NOT the Father but "only" God? a time where The Son did NOT exist?
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:41 am
by 1stjohn0666
PaulSacramento wrote:May I ask you something John?
DO you believe that there was a time that The Father was NOT the Father but "only" God? a time where The Son did NOT exist?
I believe that God has always been God, then as the OT and NT confirm the begetting of Jesus... God became a Father, and Jesus became the son.
Psalm 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You" <-- prophecy yet to be fulfilled.
Luke 1:35 "The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God."
Matt 3:17 "and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Acts 13:33 "that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU."
Heb 5:5 "So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"
The son always existed in the mind and plan of God, he is omniscient (Jesus is not)... so in a way.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:25 am
by PaulSacramento
So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:38 pm
by 1stjohn0666
PaulSacramento wrote:So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
There was a time when God's name was not known, other than the basic terms and El'Shaddai (God Almighty) Before creation what was there? When we read the birth narratives in Matt and Luke we find that one of God's creations is "a son of God" Adam. In a sense God is the Father of all things, by creation. The literal son came on the scene at Luke 1:35 "because of this the child will be called the son of God" (Jesus) also to be the last Adam.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:39 am
by PaulSacramento
1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
There was a time when God's name was not known, other than the basic terms and El'Shaddai (God Almighty) Before creation what was there? When we read the birth narratives in Matt and Luke we find that one of God's creations is "a son of God" Adam. In a sense God is the Father of all things, by creation. The literal son came on the scene at Luke 1:35 "because of this the child will be called the son of God" (Jesus) also to be the last Adam.
So, Jesus was a son of God like Adam?
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:20 am
by 1stjohn0666
PaulSacramento wrote:1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
There was a time when God's name was not known, other than the basic terms and El'Shaddai (God Almighty) Before creation what was there? When we read the birth narratives in Matt and Luke we find that one of God's creations is "a son of God" Adam. In a sense God is the Father of all things, by creation. The literal son came on the scene at Luke 1:35 "because of this the child will be called the son of God" (Jesus) also to be the last Adam.
So, Jesus was a son of God like Adam?
Created in the womb of Mary, Jesus was not created from clay as Adam was. Son of God like Adam....NO, Jesus completed what the first Adam could not.
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:59 am
by RickD
1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
There was a time when God's name was not known, other than the basic terms and El'Shaddai (God Almighty) Before creation what was there? When we read the birth narratives in Matt and Luke we find that one of God's creations is "a son of God" Adam. In a sense God is the Father of all things, by creation. The literal son came on the scene at Luke 1:35 "because of this the child will be called the son of God" (Jesus) also to be the last Adam.
So, Jesus was a son of God like Adam?
Created in the womb of Mary, Jesus was not created from clay as Adam was. Son of God like Adam....NO, Jesus completed what the first Adam could not.
John, could you prove to me from scripture that Jesus was "created in the womb of Mary"?
Re: Biblical Unitarian
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:31 am
by PaulSacramento
1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:So, in your view, there was a time ( whatever time may mean od course) that God existed, not as "THe Father" but simply as "God", yes?
There was a time when God's name was not known, other than the basic terms and El'Shaddai (God Almighty) Before creation what was there? When we read the birth narratives in Matt and Luke we find that one of God's creations is "a son of God" Adam. In a sense God is the Father of all things, by creation. The literal son came on the scene at Luke 1:35 "because of this the child will be called the son of God" (Jesus) also to be the last Adam.
So, Jesus was a son of God like Adam?
Created in the womb of Mary, Jesus was not created from clay as Adam was. Son of God like Adam....NO, Jesus completed what the first Adam could not.
How do you distinguish Jesus from The Word of God ?