The sons of Abraham

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

FL, you are correct. The Jesus of the bible us not the same jesus of the Koran. But for 1stjohn, it's the same jesus. 1stjohn denies that Jesus of Nazareth in the bible, is God in the flesh. So for 1stjohn, there's no problem calling both the bible and the Koran "holy". The bible says that God sent His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him has everlasting life. The Koran says that Allah has no son.

Yes...I had already figured out that 1stjohn0666 was a facsimile Christian. Thanks for the support!

FL

[1stjohn0666]

I simply stated that the Quran is holy book for people of the Islamic faith. And in it you can find the return of Jesus and judgement.
Ali Imran 3:52-58
I am a Christian. I choose the Jewish scriptures to define my faith and beliefs.
If I were Muslim I would choose the holy Quran as my holy book that would define my faith and beliefs.

You are one spiritually mixed-up person! The Jesus of the Koran is a very different Jesus from the one in the Bible. They are not the same individual. Allah is not YHWH. As for the sacred texts, one is the Word of God and the other is a satanic tale.

FL

FL, you are correct. The Jesus of the bible us not the same jesus of the Koran. But for 1stjohn, it's the same jesus. 1stjohn denies that Jesus of Nazareth in the bible, is God in the flesh. So for 1stjohn, there's no problem calling both the bible and the Koran "holy". The bible says that God sent His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him has everlasting life. The Koran says that Allah has no son.

So, 1stjohn is in fact NOT a Christian, because he denies who Christ really is. One cannot deny the one true Jesus Christ, and just trust in any old Christ. Eternal life comes by God's grace, through faith in the Jesus Christ of the bible, who is God incarnate.

Rick, did I say that the Jesus of the Quran and the bible are the same? NO
I did say that there are similarities.
Yes I do deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, as in Jesus is not YHWH the Father. I believe that Jesus' God is "in" Jesus. We are pretty much saying the same thing in a way.
I do not believe that God the Father came down here to Earth and dwelt among us in the flesh.
I do not think I am mixed up....LOL

[RickD]

1stjohn wrote:
Rick, did I say that the Jesus of the Quran and the bible are the same?

You said:

I simply stated that the Quran is holy book for people of the Islamic faith. And in it you can find the return of Jesus and judgement.

So, using my Dr. Detective deductive skills, if you believe the Koran is holy, and it speaks of Jesus, and you also said the bible is holy, then you would logically believe they both speak of the same Jesus. Capiche?

Yes I do deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, as in Jesus is not YHWH the Father. I believe that Jesus' God is "in" Jesus. We are pretty much saying the same thing in a way.
I do not believe that God the Father came down here to Earth and dwelt among us in the flesh.

And you're not confused? You could actually type that paragraph, without looking at it fifteen times to see if it made any sense?
We've been over this before. But just to reiterate, Jesus is not YHWH the Father, because Jesus is not the Father. But, Jesus AND the Father, AND the Holy Spirit have all the attributes that we are told YHWH has.

We are pretty much saying the same thing in a way.

We are pretty much saying the same thing, EXCEPT we're saying something completely different.

[1stjohn0666]

1stjohn wrote:
Rick, did I say that the Jesus of the Quran and the bible are the same?

You said:

I simply stated that the Quran is holy book for people of the Islamic faith. And in it you can find the return of Jesus and judgement.

So, using my Dr. Detective deductive skills, if you believe the Koran is holy, and it speaks of Jesus, and you also said the bible is holy, then you would logically believe they both speak of the same Jesus. Capiche?

Yes I do deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, as in Jesus is not YHWH the Father. I believe that Jesus' God is "in" Jesus. We are pretty much saying the same thing in a way.
I do not believe that God the Father came down here to Earth and dwelt among us in the flesh.

And you're not confused? You could actually type that paragraph, without looking at it fifteen times to see if it made any sense?
We've been over this before. But just to reiterate, Jesus is not YHWH the Father, because Jesus is not the Father. But, Jesus AND the Father, AND the Holy Spirit have all the attributes that we are told YHWH has.

We are pretty much saying the same thing in a way.

We are pretty much saying the same thing, EXCEPT we're saying something completely different.

Saying the Quran is a holy book for people of the Islamic faith does not mean I hold to the Quran being holy for me, I am of a different faith, beliefs, and practices. I am Christian. My sleuthing skills are adequate enough to reason that out. LOL
You posted "Jesus is not YHWH" I think it is a Deem person that seems to think that Jesus is YHWH on this site somewhere, Do you hold the same belief?
Jesus does not have all attributes that YHWH has. The HS is not a 3rd "person" of the tri-une God.
That is how I believe it.

[RickD]

1stjohn wrote:
Saying the Quran is a holy book for people of the Islamic faith does not mean I hold to the Quran being holy for me, I am of a different faith, beliefs, and practices.

Ok, so you're using a different definition of "holy". I believe holy in this sense means, "Belonging to, derived from, or associated with God."
So, for a Christian to say the Koran is holy, I believe he would be saying that the god of the Koran is the one true God.
Either you believe the Koran is holy because it is of God, or it's not holy because it's not of God. Holiness is not subjective, IMO. Both the bible and Koran cannot be holy, because they contradict each other.

1stjohn wrote:
I am Christian

In the most "liberal" sense of Christian. Kinda like Mormons are "Christian", and America is a "Christian" nation.

You posted "Jesus is not YHWH" I think it is a Deem person that seems to think that Jesus is YHWH on this site somewhere, Do you hold the same belief?

No John. I posted, " Jesus is not YHWH the Father, because Jesus is not the Father."
YHWH, The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, all share the same attributes. There was a link with a graph that shows this. I'll see if I can find it, so you can see what I'm saying.

[RickD]

John, here's a link that shows from scripture, that Jesus is God. I don't think it's the graph I'm remembering, but until I find the graph link, this one is great too.
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/songod.html

[RickD]

Here's the link. I pray that you will be open to see the truth John:
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/trinity.html

[1stjohn0666]

John, here's a link that shows from scripture, that Jesus is God. I don't think it's the graph I'm remembering, but until I find the graph link, this one is great too.
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/songod.html

Nice list.
1) Jesus is not all knowing, the human Jesus on Earth and the ascended Jesus in heaven.
2)Jesus is not the great "I am"
3)Jesus is not the creator
4)Jesus' God resurrected Jesus
5)"who is coming in glory" Jesus will return in his Fathers glory
6)Jesus is not the Father
7)Jesus does not have all authority and power
8)We can worship Christ and his God. Scripture NEVER has the HS worshiped!!
9)"Who's blood cleanses us" Certainly not the Fathers
10)The Father is NOT the branch of David
11)"who tests the heart and mind".....NO NT reference applied to Jesus, according to the list.

Silly emoticon at number 8 LOL

[1stjohn0666]

Here's the link. I pray that you will be open to see the truth John:
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/trinity.html

I don't buy into a "post biblical" concept that took centuries to develop.
I found where Jesus is YHVH on this site
http://www.godandscience.org/cults/songod.html