Evidence for God from Science

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:None of you have answered this fundamental question:

Which came first, the Easter bunny or the Easter egg?

FL

That is eggsactly what I was wondering. The problem is that I don't think anybunny really knows.

RickD wrote:
That is eggsactly what I was wondering. The problem is that I don't think anybunny really knows.

Instead of chocolate bunnies and candy eggs, would it be appropriate for Christians to celebrate Easter along the lines of the Passover? With a Messianic Passover Haggadah, and the whole kit: the shank bone, the egg, the 4 cups of wine, the charoset, the bitter herbs, the 3 matzos and so on...?

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

RickD wrote:
That is eggsactly what I was wondering. The problem is that I don't think anybunny really knows.

Instead of chocolate bunnies and candy eggs, would it be appropriate for Christians to celebrate Easter along the lines of the Passover? With a Messianic Passover Haggadah, and the whole kit: the shank bone, the egg, the 4 cups of wine, the charoset, the bitter herbs, the 3 matzos and so on...?

FL

Sure, why not? After all, the Passover points to Christ.

Passover dinner at FL's maison.

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

RickD wrote:
That is eggsactly what I was wondering. The problem is that I don't think anybunny really knows.

Instead of chocolate bunnies and candy eggs, would it be appropriate for Christians to celebrate Easter along the lines of the Passover? With a Messianic Passover Haggadah, and the whole kit: the shank bone, the egg, the 4 cups of wine, the charoset, the bitter herbs, the 3 matzos and so on...?

FL

Sure, why not? After all, the Passover points to Christ.

Passover dinner at FL's maison.

It's hard to tell at times when someone is joking. On the off chance you weren't, the Passover meal points to the Messiah who is yet to come. To celebrate it is to deny Christ. Now I've attended many Seder dinners since my best friend is Jewish. But it's always for the great prime rib his wife prepares.

Byblos wrote:

It's hard to tell at times when someone is joking. On the off chance you weren't, the Passover meal points to the Messiah who is yet to come. To celebrate it is to deny Christ. Now I've attended many Seder dinners since my best friend is Jewish. But it's always for the great prime rib his wife prepares.

I know it's hard to tell if FL and I are joking. But it's no joke that the Passover was a foreshadowing of Christ. And the Passover Seder is amazing how it also points to Christ.

Byblos, why do you say "To celebrate it is to deny Christ."? I think one can appreciate the Passover precisely because it points to Christ.

See Rich's article:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/passover.html

RickD wrote:Byblos wrote:

It's hard to tell at times when someone is joking. On the off chance you weren't, the Passover meal points to the Messiah who is yet to come. To celebrate it is to deny Christ. Now I've attended many Seder dinners since my best friend is Jewish. But it's always for the great prime rib his wife prepares.

I know it's hard to tell if FL and I are joking. But it's no joke that the Passover was a foreshadowing of Christ. And the Passover Seder is amazing how it also points to Christ.

Byblos, why do you say "To celebrate it is to deny Christ."? I think one can appreciate the Passover precisely because it points to Christ.

See Rich's article:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/passover.html

Not to speak for Byblos, but since I'm right here, I'll speak for him anyway. He and I have a fundamental agreement on this, but we go our separate ways in another aspect, so I'll offer my take there, just for your consideration.

The Passover doesn't just point to Jesus. As noted, it looks forward to the coming of the Messiah. But since Messiah already came, then to celebrate it as a religious ordinance is to deny that, and thus deny Christ, since you can't look forward to what is already passed. That's not to say that you can't observe it for cultural or educational reasons. But to keep it in the OT sense of keeping . . . that denies Christ.

As an aside, I do think it is interesting that Jesus chose the Passover to have what we call the Lord's Supper. He said, as often as you do this, do this in remembrance of Me. He was able to take the form of the Passover and use it to point back to Him specifically. I, therefore, don't have a problem with a Christian celebrating Passover from a distinctively Christian perspective. A Catholic, however, can't take that view, because they take the "this" to refer to the celebration of the Eucharist.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

And by the way, I love the easter bunny.

Jac3510 wrote:

RickD wrote:Byblos wrote:

It's hard to tell at times when someone is joking. On the off chance you weren't, the Passover meal points to the Messiah who is yet to come. To celebrate it is to deny Christ. Now I've attended many Seder dinners since my best friend is Jewish. But it's always for the great prime rib his wife prepares.

I know it's hard to tell if FL and I are joking. But it's no joke that the Passover was a foreshadowing of Christ. And the Passover Seder is amazing how it also points to Christ.

Byblos, why do you say "To celebrate it is to deny Christ."? I think one can appreciate the Passover precisely because it points to Christ.

See Rich's article:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/passover.html

Not to speak for Byblos, but since I'm right here, I'll speak for him anyway. He and I have a fundamental agreement on this, but we go our separate ways in another aspect, so I'll offer my take there, just for your consideration.

The Passover doesn't just point to Jesus. As noted, it looks forward to the coming of the Messiah. But since Messiah already came, then to celebrate it as a religious ordinance is to deny that, and thus deny Christ, since you can't look forward to what is already passed. That's not to say that you can't observe it for cultural or educational reasons. But to keep it in the OT sense of keeping . . . that denies Christ.

As an aside, I do think it is interesting that Jesus chose the Passover to have what we call the Lord's Supper. He said, as often as you do this, do this in remembrance of Me. He was able to take the form of the Passover and use it to point back to Him specifically. I, therefore, don't have a problem with a Christian celebrating Passover from a distinctively Christian perspective. A Catholic, however, can't take that view, because they take the "this" to refer to the celebration of the Eucharist.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

And by the way, I love the easter bunny.

On the contrary Jac, we agree much more than you might think. Celebrating the Passover from a distinctly Christian perspective is precisely what the Eucharist is (the issue of the real presence notwithstanding), i.e Christ's once-for-all-sacrifice is made manifest in an unbloody manner over and over again. It is the celebration of the Passover from a Jewish perspective that denies Christ's sacrifice, with which I have an issue. And it sounds like you agree.

Jac wrote:
The Passover doesn't just point to Jesus. As noted, it looks forward to the coming of the Messiah. But since Messiah already came, then to celebrate it as a religious ordinance is to deny that, and thus deny Christ, since you can't look forward to what is already passed. That's not to say that you can't observe it for cultural or educational reasons. But to keep it in the OT sense of keeping . . . that denies Christ.

I agree Jac. To celebrate anything that points forward to Christ, as a religious ordinance, could be seen as a denial of Christ. Many Jews who celebrate the passover, are still waiting for their messiah. But we can certainly appreciate the Passover, knowing it points to Christ.

As an aside, I do think it is interesting that Jesus chose the Passover to have what we call the Lord's Supper. He said, as often as you do this, do this in remembrance of Me. He was able to take the form of the Passover and use it to point back to Him specifically. I, therefore, don't have a problem with a Christian celebrating Passover from a distinctively Christian perspective. A Catholic, however, can't take that view, because they take the "this" to refer to the celebration of the Eucharist.

Are you saying Catholics aren't Christians?

RickD wrote:Are you saying Catholics aren't Christians?

Yeah Jac, are you? Are you? Huh?

Byblos wrote:On the contrary Jac, we agree much more than you might think. Celebrating the Passover from a distinctly Christian perspective is precisely what the Eucharist is (the issue of the real presence notwithstanding), i.e Christ's once-for-all-sacrifice is made manifest in an unbloody manner over and over again. It is the celebration of the Passover from a Jewish perspective that denies Christ's sacrifice, with which I have an issue. And it sounds like you agree.

Well I'm no expert on the Eucharist, so maybe there's more agreement than I'm aware of. But it feels like we're playing games here . . . I don't know how you separate the real presence from the Eucharist, and even if you can, the Passover was a lot more than receiving bread and wine. The "this" I was referring to was the entire ritual that began at sunset and continued through the end of the meal.

RickD wrote:I agree Jac. To celebrate anything that points forward to Christ, as a religious ordinance, could be seen as a denial of Christ. Many Jews who celebrate the passover, are still waiting for their messiah. But we can certainly appreciate the Passover, knowing it points to Christ.

See, we CAN all get along. KOOMBAYA!

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:Are you saying Catholics aren't Christians?

Yeah Jac, are you? Are you? Huh?

I didn't think I was, but all the sudden I feel like I'm in trouble!

Jac wrote:
. I, therefore, don't have a problem with a Christian celebrating Passover from a distinctively Christian perspective. A Catholic, however, can't take that view, because they take the "this" to refer to the celebration of the Eucharist.

On one hand you don't have a problem with Christians...
On the other hand, a Catholic...

I didn't think I was, but all the sudden I feel like I'm in trouble!

Yes Jac, it looks like you've got some splainin to do.

Perhaps I wasn't clear when I posted this:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Instead of chocolate bunnies and candy eggs, would it be appropriate for Christians to celebrate Easter along the lines of the Passover? With a Messianic Passover Haggadah, and the whole kit: the shank bone, the egg, the 4 cups of wine, the charoset, the bitter herbs, the 3 matzos and so on...?

For those who are unfamiliar with Passover, a Haggadah is usually a booklet that guides a family in the conduct of the Passover Seder, or supper. ''Haggadah'' means ''the telling'' of the story of Passover, and ''seder'' means ''order'', so a Haggadah structures the Passover supper into a ritual meant to teach and familiarize those attending with what God did for the Israelites before and during the Exodus.

If you re-read my quote, you'll notice that I specified a Messianic Passover Haggadah*. I happen to have one from this source,

http://www.messianicjewish.net

This Haggadah recounts the story of the Exodus and the coming of Jesus and his atoning - and final - sacrifice. Thanks to the New Testament, this Haggadah also sheds light on curiosities in the traditional Seder which recall Jesus' suffering and His place in the Trinity (such as why matzos have stripes and holes; why the middle afikomen is hidden and then found by a child, and so on).

I've read this Haggadah and it is for Jewish believers in Christ, so it is not really for Gentile Christians because we were never enslaved in Egypt, nor did we take part in the Exodus . Still, with a little editing here and there, it should be possible to make a ''Christian Easter Haggadah''.

It has to be better than chocolate eggs and bunnies...

FL

*A Messianic Passover Haggadah, Messianic Jewish Publishers, Clarksville, Md.

FL wrote:
It has to be better than chocolate eggs and bunnies...

Sorry FL. Nothing...I mean NOTHING, is better than a Reese's peanut butter egg.

Jac3510 wrote:I didn't think I was, but all the sudden I feel like I'm in trouble!

And here I was under the impression trouble is your middle name.

RickD wrote:

FL wrote:
It has to be better than chocolate eggs and bunnies...

Sorry FL. Nothing...I mean NOTHING, is better than a Reese's peanut butter egg.

Or Chocolate, anything better than Chocolate? That's just as nonsensical as a square circle.