Evidence for God from Science

I would be curious to see WHY He choose to reject the Gospel.

I was being very serious. You are shopping for a religion the same way people shop for soap: which cleans better?

I knew you were being serious; I just found it hard to take you seriously. How you could possibly judge what's in my heart based on my posting a hypothetical situation to make a point? It's absurd. A local minister I heard, suggested anyone listening to him not follow Christ because he said it's the truth, but to read the gospels, check out all the other options and make sure it sounds like the best path to them before committing to being a follower of Jesus. To me that made sense, and your trivializing or putting it down doesn't make you sound intellectual, rather it sounds like you think you're "better" than others.

I suggest having what you call an abrasive style (or what I see as judgmental and arrogant) is unchristian and something to work on overcoming rather than to be proud of. Obviously I need to be less sensitive and defensive among other things.

What do you mean by a fair shake?

First, I realize that just because someone is raised in a particular culture, it doesn't mean they must choose the world view of that culture. But I do think it is what happens the vast majority of the time. And since we're talking about billions of people that have done so, I find it hard to believe every single one of those billions of Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and atheists is not looking hard enough, or they're insincere, or not being honest with themselves, or not genuinely wanting to know God.

I don't know any Muslims, but I do know Jews, Atheists, and Hindus, who are just as sure they're right as any of the other responders to my post believe they are about Jesus. I also consider them to be good people; of course they fall short of Jesus, but they're as good and as sincere as anyone else. Some are in my family. One is my son, I can't bear the thought of me making a commitment to follow Christ and believing they are all going to be separated from God (and in turn me) for eternity.

Personally, I came to realize there can't be such things as love and moral absolutes without a God. I've come to see how the God of the Old Testament's stringent laws are really fair, because Israel was a theocracy. I've come to understand He passed judgment on the Canaanites rather than committed genocide. I see that in all likelihood the tomb of Jesus was really empty, and that the eye witnesses died for what they claim to have seen. But I haven't read the Koran or studied Buddah as part of getting here, and it's probably because of my western culture that I didn't take them seriously enough. So while I might go to heaven if I became a Christian, if it turned out Muslims were right about Allah and Mohammed, I won't think it's fair if Allah sends me to hell. And I don't think I'd be getting a fair shake.

If it were a person born in Israel and raised in a Jewish culture and urged to be Jewish, though they heard about Jesus, they don't have the same opportunity as I had. That's not a fair shake. Just because there's so much riding on it.

Since we're ultimately talking about so many lives here, I wanted to find out how people who are already Christians deal with the issue, if they think about it, etc. I may not have articulated as well as I could have, but hopefully you'll see what I mean. In any case, I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.

Charles

I would be curious to see WHY He choose to reject the Gospel

I don't really have a specific answer for that because it's hypothetical. But I wrote it out of concern for ...

people from other cultures who end up in the religion they were born into even after they heard about Jesus. And as I indicated before, I believe that to be the majority of said people, in the same way the majority of westerners end up embracing Christianity if they're not agnostic or atheist.

former Christians who change to another religion or agnosticism or atheism and sincerely believe they are following the ultimate truth.

Paul, I hope that gives you enough to go on as I would appreciate your opinion.

Also, I mentioned in a previous post what Christ said on the cross, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" as a possible precedent for God saving non Christians. Apparently I'm taking it out of context, but I don't understand why. If anyone can forgive my ignorance and explain it I'd be grateful.

Thanks,
Charles

cnk12 wrote:

I would be curious to see WHY He choose to reject the Gospel

I don't really have a specific answer for that because it's hypothetical. But I wrote it out of concern for ...

people from other cultures who end up in the religion they were born into even after they heard about Jesus. And as I indicated before, I believe that to be the majority of said people, in the same way the majority of westerners end up embracing Christianity if they're not agnostic or atheist.

former Christians who change to another religion or agnosticism or atheism and sincerely believe they are following the ultimate truth.

Paul, I hope that gives you enough to go on as I would appreciate your opinion.

Also, I mentioned in a previous post what Christ said on the cross, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" as a possible precedent for God saving non Christians. Apparently I'm taking it out of context, but I don't understand why. If anyone can forgive my ignorance and explain it I'd be grateful.

Thanks,
Charles

There is nothing more important than WHY we do things.
Why some one would reject Christ is what effects their salvation.
Maybe their "studies" was with a group like the JW's or their church experience was like the Westboro church.
Maybe they were told of doctrines like predestination that offended them.

It is my experience that many times people reject a VERSION of Christ and the gospel that isn't true to who Christ is and what His Gospel is.

cnk12 wrote:

B. W. wrote:What do you mean by a fair shake?

First, I realize that just because someone is raised in a particular culture, it doesn't mean they must choose the world view of that culture. But I do think it is what happens the vast majority of the time. And since we're talking about billions of people that have done so, I find it hard to believe every single one of those billions of Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and atheists is not looking hard enough, or they're insincere, or not being honest with themselves, or not genuinely wanting to know God.

I don't know any Muslims, but I do know Jews, Atheists, and Hindus, who are just as sure they're right as any of the other responders to my post believe they are about Jesus. I also consider them to be good people; of course they fall short of Jesus, but they're as good and as sincere as anyone else. Some are in my family. One is my son, I can't bear the thought of me making a commitment to follow Christ and believing they are all going to be separated from God (and in turn me) for eternity.

Personally, I came to realize there can't be such things as love and moral absolutes without a God. I've come to see how the God of the Old Testament's stringent laws are really fair, because Israel was a theocracy. I've come to understand He passed judgment on the Canaanites rather than committed genocide. I see that in all likelihood the tomb of Jesus was really empty, and that the eye witnesses died for what they claim to have seen. But I haven't read the Koran or studied Buddah as part of getting here, and it's probably because of my western culture that I didn't take them seriously enough. So while I might go to heaven if I became a Christian, if it turned out Muslims were right about Allah and Mohammed, I won't think it's fair if Allah sends me to hell. And I don't think I'd be getting a fair shake.

If it were a person born in Israel and raised in a Jewish culture and urged to be Jewish, though they heard about Jesus, they don't have the same opportunity as I had. That's not a fair shake. Just because there's so much riding on it.

Since we're ultimately talking about so many lives here, I wanted to find out how people who are already Christians deal with the issue, if they think about it, etc. I may not have articulated as well as I could have, but hopefully you'll see what I mean. In any case, I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.

Charles

Let me ask you another question:

How did you come to this conclusion - that God does not give a fair shake to others?
-
-
-

Let me ask you another question:

How did you come to this conclusion - that God does not give a fair shake to others?

Frankly I haven't really reached that conclusion, but I wonder... I'm saying it doesn't seem fair, knowing that as a mere human, I'm not in a position to ultimately say whether the creator is fair or not. Regardless of that, I'd like to feel better about the issue, not because I'm looking for a feel good but sacrifice the truth answer or religion, nor do I want to bend Jesus to what I want Him to be. I just can't resolve the thought of whether it's fair nor not in my mind.

In considering this I'm assuming as the majority of Christians indicate, that the billions of people I've made reference to and given multiple examples of are in fact not saved, and headed for an eternity separate from God.

As I tried to illustrate in my examples, they don't appear to have as great an opportunity to see Christ as the only way, whether the reasons are cultural or they were incorrect in choosing the path to God. Maybe my mistake is that I don't question the sincerity of someone who choses another path and thinks they've done so correctly. I really don't see how I could. From there I go to, wouldn't it be great if there was a clear indication from God that we've chosen wrong when we did.

I'm hoping someone will offer another explanation than, "they didn't choose right", period, end of discussion. If that's unrealistic, maybe I'll learn that.

To put it as concisely as I can, Jesus as the correct choice to salvation, is not as clear a choice to some as it is to others. I feel the numbers of people choosing other paths is a clear indication of that.

I was asking about what Jesus said on the cross, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do" as an indicator he would give other such people another chance. Or if the verse John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live... indicates we are called again after we die, i.e. amounting to another chance. Or so doubters know for a fact that Jesus is not a man made deity.

Anyway, there are my thoughts on it. I hope it's clear to you.

Thanks,
Charles

To be honest about what you ask, I myself right now do not know enough and it (at least for now) remains a mystery. (Am Christian for a small amount of time.) From the emotional part, I would be happy if all got 'fair shake' as you call it. But eventhough I do not have profound answer to this question, based on what I know and have experienced, I know there is God and Jesus and that Bible is their word to us.

From what you told about other people from other religions the question naturally arises: what are my experiences and what theirs?

P.s.: I just recalled that a year ago there was a talk about authenticity and trust of Bible compared to that of Quran. Studies have shown (they say) Quran was rewrited and that there are more than one source of Quran whereas there is only one source for Bible.

I think that it is important for believers to trust in God and that God KNOWS why people come to Him or why they don't and to trust that the source of Love ( God) will do what is right in that regard.
Regardless of what human doctrine may state, in the end it is up to God.

cnk12 wrote:

Let me ask you another question:

How did you come to this conclusion - that God does not give a fair shake to others?

Frankly I haven't really reached that conclusion, but I wonder... I'm saying it doesn't seem fair, knowing that as a mere human, I'm not in a position to ultimately say whether the creator is fair or not. Regardless of that, I'd like to feel better about the issue, not because I'm looking for a feel good but sacrifice the truth answer or religion, nor do I want to bend Jesus to what I want Him to be. I just can't resolve the thought of whether it's fair nor not in my mind.

In considering this I'm assuming as the majority of Christians indicate, that the billions of people I've made reference to and given multiple examples of are in fact not saved, and headed for an eternity separate from God.

As I tried to illustrate in my examples, they don't appear to have as great an opportunity to see Christ as the only way, whether the reasons are cultural or they were incorrect in choosing the path to God. Maybe my mistake is that I don't question the sincerity of someone who choses another path and thinks they've done so correctly. I really don't see how I could. From there I go to, wouldn't it be great if there was a clear indication from God that we've chosen wrong when we did.

I'm hoping someone will offer another explanation than, "they didn't choose right", period, end of discussion. If that's unrealistic, maybe I'll learn that.

To put it as concisely as I can, Jesus as the correct choice to salvation, is not as clear a choice to some as it is to others. I feel the numbers of people choosing other paths is a clear indication of that.

I was asking about what Jesus said on the cross, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do" as an indicator he would give other such people another chance. Or if the verse John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live... indicates we are called again after we die, i.e. amounting to another chance. Or so doubters know for a fact that Jesus is not a man made deity.

Anyway, there are my thoughts on it. I hope it's clear to you.

Thanks,
Charles

Have you considered that human beings err and twist and warp all they do? Seek to justify themselves, their thoughts, their actions? Wiggle themselves out of jam, scapegoat, bloviate about themselves? Game the system, lie, steal, cheat, backbite, glorify sick stuff/behaviors…

How have you done these things yourself?


With that thought in mind – why would God desire to share his personal home with such folk that do these things?

Have you considered that? Why would he want to live with any of us?

If allowed into his personal home, we would make a rot out of it as proven by how we live our individual and collective lives in this here and now.

Have you considered these things?
-
-
-

Have you considered that human beings err and twist and warp all they do? Seek to justify themselves, their thoughts, their actions? Wiggle themselves out of jam, scapegoat, bloviate about themselves? Game the system, lie, steal, cheat, backbite, glorify sick stuff/behaviors…

How have you done these things yourself?


With that thought in mind – why would God desire to share his personal home with such folk that do these things?

Have you considered that? Why would he want to live with any of us?

If allowed into his personal home, we would make a rot out of it as proven by how we live our individual and collective lives in this here and now.

Have you considered these things?

If I haven't considered what you asked about, I'll do it now. The last thing I deserve is to be able to be in the presence of God. I realize that all of us fall short of the glory of God and the sinless life that Jesus led. Because God is just, our evil has a cost, which is the reason Jesus died; to pay the penalty for us. All He asks is that we accept His grace and believe in Him and we are forgiven.

I find it upsetting that someone in a different culture, who is probably way less evil than me, only has 10% of the opportunity as I do to be saved. The only difference between us is his faulty human interpretation of the data in deciding his world view.

Or, in the case of my child who choses to be Atheist, I understand he does evil and falls short of the life Jesus left, and like anyone else, doesn't deserve heaven. But he's ten times the man I ever was, and he sincerely wishes he could believe but doesn't feel the evidence supports it. In my opinion, he deserves a second chance more than I deserve the first one. But from what the majority of Christians say, the answer is no, he and the other example I gave, and people like them which amounts to billions and billions of lives are destined for hell.

I was hoping I was missing something and that someone could correct me. To answer one of your questions as to why God would want us to live with Him, I believe it's because He loves us. From that and everything else I've learned about God, it seems out of character, He would let so many fall by the wayside, when all He has to do is give us a clear indication He is the way.

BTW, thanks for your dialogue and questions that make me think. It's a pleasure to communicate with you.
Charles

... he sincerely wishes he could believe but doesn't feel the evidence supports it.

This reminds me of myself. I felt the same.

Also, who is 'less evil' than others? I think we cannot do this comparison. All are evil. None has pure heart. We needs to be forgiven, repent, and receive Holy Spirit.

cnk12 wrote:Or, in the case of my child who choses to be Atheist, I understand he does evil and falls short of the life Jesus left, and like anyone else, doesn't deserve heaven. But he's ten times the man I ever was, and he sincerely wishes he could believe but doesn't feel the evidence supports it. In my opinion, he deserves a second chance more than I deserve the first one. But from what the majority of Christians say, the answer is no, he and the other example I gave, and people like them which amounts to billions and billions of lives are destined for hell.

May I point back to what I said earlier and encourage you and your son to look specifically at the evidence for Jesus' resurrection? In my opinion, we get entirely too fixated on the issue of God's existence. Far more interesting and helpful, though, is Jesus. The evidence in favor of His resurrection is overwhelming. There was a Jewish scholar (in both an ethnic and religious sense) named Pinchas Lapide who decided to study the issue and was so impressed by the evidence that he wrote a book arguing that from a strictly historical perspective we must affirm that Jesus rose form the dead even as he refused to become a Christian. He just concluded that Jesus was a really good man whom God honored by restoring him to life, that he wasn't really the Messiah. (If you are interested, you can get the book where he makes the argument here).

Anybody here can point you to really great resources on Jesus' resurrection. To me, at the end of the day, that's the lynchpin issue. If He rose from the dead, some form of Christianity has to be true (Lapide's objections notwithstanding). If He isn't, then Christianity is not true (and so 1 Cor 15). There's no reason to both studying Islam or Hinduism or anything else. All you need is to study Jesus. If He is who He says He is, then that's what you believe, and you are saved. Always remember John 20:31 in these discussions: "I have written things things so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that by believing, you may have life in His Name."

This reminds me of myself. I felt the same.

Also, who is 'less evil' than others? I think we cannot do this comparison. All are evil. None has pure heart. We needs to be forgiven, repent, and receive Holy Spirit.

I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to make it clear he wasn't any more or less deserving than anyone else, or maybe all things being equal would've been the best way to say it.

May I point back to what I said earlier and encourage you and your son to look specifically at the evidence for Jesus' resurrection? In my opinion, we get entirely too fixated on the issue of God's existence. Far more interesting and helpful, though, is Jesus. The evidence in favor of His resurrection is overwhelming. There was a Jewish scholar (in both an ethnic and religious sense) named Pinchas Lapide who decided to study the issue and was so impressed by the evidence that he wrote a book arguing that from a strictly historical perspective we must affirm that Jesus rose form the dead even as he refused to become a Christian. He just concluded that Jesus was a really good man whom God honored by restoring him to life, that he wasn't really the Messiah. (If you are interested, you can get the book where he makes the argument here).

Anybody here can point you to really great resources on Jesus' resurrection. To me, at the end of the day, that's the lynchpin issue. If He rose from the dead, some form of Christianity has to be true (Lapide's objections notwithstanding). If He isn't, then Christianity is not true (and so 1 Cor 15). There's no reason to both studying Islam or Hinduism or anything else. All you need is to study Jesus. If He is who He says He is, then that's what you believe, and you are saved. Always remember John 20:31 in these discussions: "I have written things things so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that by believing, you may have life in His Name."

I remain pretty much convinced about the resurrection. I read a book called "The Case for the Resurrection" by Lee Strobel that helped me with that.

Here is my motivation on this issue. My son came to me a few years ago asking the question I'm asking in this post. He had been deeply concerned for the longest time about his relatives, classmates, teachers, and on and on who apparently weren't going to heaven. My answers (with all due respect) were no better than I'm getting. He has since embraced atheism and I feel I need to have certain information (a "good" answer to my question) before I can start the process of trying to bring him back. As for myself, I'd rather keep my son company "in hell" than be in heaven without him. I realize the mere fact I've chosen him over God makes me a poor candidate for a Christian anyway. But I'd still like to try.
But first, I'll have to undo all the atheist propaganda he's subjected himself to and ultimately I will again have address this question... the number of lives that spend eternity separate from God, when all things being equal, they made the wrong choice?

I understand Paul Sacramento's question "WHY", but with it being most of the earth's population, there are obviously countless whys. There has to be a lot that all things being equal, have made the wrong choice while being as sincere as any Christian. I say that because I know Atheists, Hindu's and Jews who are just as devout as the many Christians I know.

Are the verses I asked about, Luke 23:34 and John 5:25 just a false hope of because of my ignorance?

Thanks,
Charles

Hi Charles,

I'm glad you read and enjoyed Strobell's book. It's very good. I also appreciate your question, as it is perfectly legitimate. Part of the difficulty (at least for me) is that the why-would-a-loving-god-send-millions-of-people-to-hell line is often presented as an argument against Christianity. When stated formally, it attempts to show that Christianity is inconsistent with itself and so it can't be true all other arguments in its favor notwithstanding. What we (me included) tend to offer in response are questions and arguments directed at the logical problem it presents. And just here is where everyone gets flabbergasted, because while it is relatively easy to show that there is no self-contradiction in saying that millions of people will go to hell even though God loves them, what really nags at people is not (I think) the logical problem at all. It's really an emotional problem we are having.

I don't use the word "emotional" in a pejorative sense, as if emotional problems are less important than logical ones. Apologists and theologians tend to focus on the latter, but we need to remember that God made us both rational and emotional creatures. Answers directed at one part of people to the exclusion of the other aren't really answers at all.

As I read this thread, I don't see poor answers. On the contrary, everything said here is, for the most part, theologically and logically accurate. What we're failing to do is address the underlying problem, the elephant in the room if you will, of the ugliness of the proposition. Sure, we can show that God is not unjust to allow a Christian into heaven and to condemn a Muslim even when the Christian was born in America and the Muslim in Afghanistan having no connection to the Christian world whatsoever. But having justified that claim logically and theologically, what are we left with? We still have a God who is condemning people that we love. We imagine that if we were God, we could be more merciful, and we are left to wonder why God can't just be more merciful? We kind of feel like at least some of the condemned haven't been given a "fair shot" and salvation, and that just feels wrong.

So here's the tension we have to live with. It feels wrong to say that God can justly condemn millions of people, especially when some of those don't appear to have the same opportunities for salvation as we do. But logically we can't use that as a basis for argument against God doing that very thing.

In light of all that, allow me to give you a bit of pastoral advice (rather than theological argument). Acknowledge openly and honestly the feelings you are dealing with, and whenever you talk about this issue with anyone, do the same with them. Acknowledge that "the answer" is NOT going to make you FEEL better about the proposition. Go further and remember that it's rather silly to ask for an answer to suddenly make us feel okay about hell. I mean, think about that a second. It is HELL. Who is going to feel good about hell? I mean, maybe Hitler being there doesn't bother you as much as someone else, but if you really let yourself meditate on that, I think you'll ultimately realize that when you get past your initial anger at the deep evil he committed, you'll still come to the place where you eventually say, "Okay, but hasn't he paid enough already?" Again, you can never and will never feel good about hell precisely because of what hell is: it is the final and eternal reaping of an eternity with God and all the suffering and loss that entails. It is evil in its final and purest form, and we can never feel good about evil. Our nature abhors it. God Himself abhors it.

Once you've done that, you can stop looking for a way to "feel good" about people being condemned. You can start to live with the tension. At this point, you have to resist the temptation of thinking that a logical answer is good enough. All a logical answer can do is show why you can't say Christianity is false given this particular assertion (namely, that people go to hell). What you need here is to focus on God's character. He loves those people more than you do. He is fairer than you are. He is more just than you are. He is more merciful than you are. Everything you are feeling, God is feeling infinitely more deeply. Remember and focus on the fact that the door to heaven is as wide as it can be. God has not made it difficult. He has not given us a million hoops to jump through to be with Him forever. On the contrary, He has done everything for us, up to and including giving up Himself so that we who certainly deserve nothing less than hell can be with Him forever. So be honest with Him. Read God's answer to Job. Has it ever crossed your mind that God never told Job why he suffered? What did God do? He just pointed Job to Himself. Imagine if God had told Job why he suffered what he did. Would that have made Job feel one bit better about losing his children? Not at all! God proved Himself a true pastor, a true shepherd: He told Job to stop focusing on the suffering and to start focusing on the Sovereign.

God is the answer. God's character, God's nature . . . He Himself is the answer. You'll still feel terrible about the evil of Hell, and you will still not understand why any given individual person isn't saved--you'll still have all of your thoughts, "But he didn't have the same chance I did!" But you can remember that God hasn't told you everything. What He has told you, though, is enough. He loves them. He cherishes them. He LONGS for their salvation, far more than you. He has made a way for it. He's simply asking you to trust Him. Because if you can't trust Him on this, why should you think that if He did give you an answer you would be any more likely to trust Him then?

Sorry for the length of this, but I hope it helps a little. And, if not, then keep searching and ignore all of this.

edit:

As to the verses you mentioned, I think you are looking at the wrong ones. It sounds like you are trying to find verses that show that some people that you don't see justification for their condemnation will, in fact, not be condemned. But that's a losing game to play . . . your justification may be sufficient for you, and not for another. The only place that road ends is universalism (the belief that none go to hell at all), which is just obviously unbiblical. You would do far better to focus on those verses that speak positively of God's love for all, His desire that none should perish, etc., and use them to remind yourself that God loves and cares for those very people you are concerned for far more than you and therefore if there is ANYTHING that can be done for them, He of all people will be the first to do it (just as He did for you!).

cnk12 wrote:

Have you considered that human beings err and twist and warp all they do? Seek to justify themselves, their thoughts, their actions? Wiggle themselves out of jam, scapegoat, bloviate about themselves? Game the system, lie, steal, cheat, backbite, glorify sick stuff/behaviors…

How have you done these things yourself?


With that thought in mind – why would God desire to share his personal home with such folk that do these things?

Have you considered that? Why would he want to live with any of us?

If allowed into his personal home, we would make a rot out of it as proven by how we live our individual and collective lives in this here and now.

Have you considered these things?

If I haven't considered what you asked about, I'll do it now. The last thing I deserve is to be able to be in the presence of God. I realize that all of us fall short of the glory of God and the sinless life that Jesus led. Because God is just, our evil has a cost, which is the reason Jesus died; to pay the penalty for us. All He asks is that we accept His grace and believe in Him and we are forgiven.

I find it upsetting that someone in a different culture, who is probably way less evil than me, only has 10% of the opportunity as I do to be saved. The only difference between us is his faulty human interpretation of the data in deciding his world view.

Or, in the case of my child who choses to be Atheist, I understand he does evil and falls short of the life Jesus left, and like anyone else, doesn't deserve heaven. But he's ten times the man I ever was, and he sincerely wishes he could believe but doesn't feel the evidence supports it. In my opinion, he deserves a second chance more than I deserve the first one. But from what the majority of Christians say, the answer is no, he and the other example I gave, and people like them which amounts to billions and billions of lives are destined for hell.

I was hoping I was missing something and that someone could correct me. To answer one of your questions as to why God would want us to live with Him, I believe it's because He loves us. From that and everything else I've learned about God, it seems out of character, He would let so many fall by the wayside, when all He has to do is give us a clear indication He is the way.

BTW, thanks for your dialogue and questions that make me think. It's a pleasure to communicate with you.
Charles

Thank you for your questions. These are the same posed by many folks regarding the matter of God’s equity. What I am hearing you say is that there are degrees of goodness and badness and that less badness does not deserve the same recompense as more badness does. For that reason, it appears this places a stumbling block before you. So in order answer your inquiry let me pose several questions that may help you gain insight in this matter more fully.

As for the issues of less badness verse more badness and that less bad does not deserve the same eternity as more badness does. Have you considered what Jesus himself said on this matter? A little leaven, leaven spoils the lump? Or that the bible speaks of – what one sows that they will reap?

Once cottage cheese begins to go bad, do you toss the whole lot out or try to remove the not so bad curds so you can enjoy good curds later? A little bad contaminates a whole carton of good. Now in the realm of humanity, this principle applies as well. Have you considered this?

Next, have you ever thought about the whole nature and character of God that the bible reveals and how God will not deny who and what he is, nor violate any of His gifts, callings, promises, and word? In the garden of Eden, spoilage crept in. If you were in God's shoes, how would you correct this matter without any violation to your character /nature and others whom you promised and gave too?

If God tossed out the whole lot, how could He be true to his word, promises, gifts, and callings to humanity? As we apply antibiotics and medicine to cure what begins as a little badness that spoils by infecting the body with severe life threatening illness, so God had a plan to do likewise. Like a skillful surgeon removing what spoils, he can save, reconcile, and heal what remains. Therefore, have you considered what God would do to correct these things without violating any of his personal ethics, morals, and standards? Recall, any violation of these matters would cause God to cease being – well – God…something He will not do...

God granted free moral agency the gift of life, and reason to human beings – violate any of these, how could He be truly true to Himself and all he says and does as well as those he made such promises too?

What would He do to correct the human question of ruination known as sin that spoils? Would He force folks to accept him – or present a choice so folks decide between spoilage and His Goodness that cures - freely?

Which of the two would define the standards of absolute justice and equity?

Have you considered how God sent his eternal word – Jesus Christ to live amongst us, and in the process expose what brings spoilage separating us from God by that act upon that Cross?

Would you do this for folks – just to present a fair question to such that abuse you, put you on trial, lie about you, slander you, steal from you your very garments, mock you, spit upon you, beat you, slander your character and name, demand their ways or the highway (jack)? Would you save such ungrateful folk who think their little spoilage cannot multiply any contaminates?

How would you wake them up to see what they are doing so they may take the free cure? The cure that saves and releases them from the debt they owe for spreading their spoilage. Would you die a horrible death showing humanity what sin really is that spoils the heart so those that see their infection may willingly take the cure or reject it cold?

Could you do this even if the answer of each soul was already foreknown that many would refuse your cure – by demanding things must be done their way, or else? Or else what? What is fair?

Have you considered that an all knowing being (God) would know all the answers to His question posed (Cure or no cure)? Therefore, he can assign folks anywhere He pleases and in any era of time that suites best. Have you thought about that such being as God knows the entire future a family’s progeny, permit ancestors to freely go about their way, knowing that they will reject his cure, yet, because of some in the future generations would accept his cure he keeps alive – have you considered that? How is it that unfair?

Have you considered that Christ is knocking on your door at this moment – posing to you a choice – accept His free gift of Himself (the cure) offered to change your life, change your ways, seal you as changeable so you can live eternally in God’s home without all your baggage and all your dirt that spoils? Is that Fair enough for you?

Why or why not?

Reflect on this a bit before you answer and seek not to justify yourself to get out of a jam by persuading yourself that God is unfair because some perceived badness is less in others to justify that punishment does not fit the crime. As soon as milk smells bad – enjoy! A little bad leaven spoils the whole lump.

You know not others lives or the spoilage they spread as well as how God has confronted them with his cure. You know not their future choices and ways and manners, nor how God permits such to remain (anywhere in the world today) so that a future progeny known to God will someday willing takes His free cure, while the ancestor would not: such knowledge as this too wonderful to fully contemplate.

Therefore, stop trying to dictate to God what he must do for you to accept him. Are you not doing so by reasoning that according to you, the punishment does not fit the crime?

It is what The Lord has done for all humankind that saves, seals, and changes lives – not anything we do to convince ourselves, or Him, that we are so innocent, good enough, justified by our reasoning and manners so that we can waltz into His eternal home with all our baggage dirt, and spoilage which contaminates all it touches.

People spread their spoilage. Do you keep spoiled fruit with the good? Why should God? How have we spread our spoilage? Often, by putting God on trial – demanding him unfair that punishment does not fit the crime, god, let us in your home anyways – cause you are so loving.

Hmmm, aren't you doing so by the question you posed?

The Lord offered the cure and way to change in this life, through what He has done on that cross, you can accept it or reject it. It is free. He alone does the work to clean you up from the inside out. Here, in this here and now, we learn of Him and accept His changes wrought – freely that cures all our spoilage now and forever.

How is that unfair?
-
-
-

P. S.Some of my response is under my copyright...

Bryan W. Melvin
Author: A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion