Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:One thing I think we all can agree on, is that God made men more intelligent than women*.



Signed,

Anonymous


*except for Hana. She's an Alberta Einstein.

There are more women on this forum and can fight for them

1over137 wrote:

RickD wrote:One thing I think we all can agree on, is that God made men more intelligent than women*.



Signed,

Anonymous


*except for Hana. She's an Alberta Einstein.

There are more women on this forum and can fight for them

Fight? Women can't fight because along with women being less intelligent than men, they're the weaker sex too.

Signed,

Please don't tell my wife.

Run, Rick, RUN - while you can. She's a programmer (like my wife) - believe me, you stand NO chance!

Car wrote:Yes we deny it we ignore it,we don't make comment's about how black people dominate the running competitions,we don't make comment's about why Asians do not have so much competition in Olympics.
But if there are clear physical differences between races in sports,is there also a an intelligence difference?Yes a lot of iq tests prove it ,it looks to me that race exists and we evolved different characteristics for our survival,but why God make so many physical differences between races? I mean how can you make someone less intelligent than the other?

"Black" isn't a race, it's a skin colour that is shared by a vastly diverse set of peoples. In the same way that Western Europeans and East Asians aren't some kind of homogeneous amalgam by virtue of their light skin, neither are Aboriginal Australians and Sub-Saharan Africans by virtue of their dark skin.

"Blacks" don't dominate running contests; athletes from a group of Caribbean nations tend to excel in sprinting competitions, and likewise athletes from a handful of African nations in long distance competitions; this is as at least as much down to culture and training focus as it is to any genetic component. Saying that people with black skin are excellent runners because of these two myopic observations is as absurd as using the examples of Newcastle and Glasgow to say that white people are incredible ship builders.

Car wrote:Ok then explain this to me why Black Africans didn't have written language or a calendar or did not build a mechanical device before they got contact with outsiders?
Also why Hispanic people do better than Africans in iq tests I mean they are also getting racism right?

For the same reason that Europeans conquered the Americas and not the other way round: because of a galaxy of environmental, social and political factors - not to mention theerator time being right - all of which serve to make any potential genetic factor pale into utter insignificance. Or because blacks are stupid - whichever best suits your worldview, right?

PerciFlage wrote:
"Blacks" don't dominate running contests; athletes from a group of Caribbean nations tend to excel in sprinting competitions, and likewise athletes from a handful of African nations in long distance competitions; this is as at least as much down to culture and training focus as it is to any genetic component. Saying that people with black skin are excellent runners because of these two myopic observations is as absurd as using the examples of Newcastle and Glasgow to say that white people are incredible ship builders.

What are you talking about? http://www.all-athletics.com/files/news ... eijing.jpg all runners sprinters and distance runners winners are black.
Before saying that iq test are nothing read this please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligen ... nvironment
And this video about race and iq test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1232lBIxEI
Indigenous Australians have also score really low in iq tests you can read here why iq tests can show us a lot of things http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous ... #Education Aboriginals are doing pretty bad in education I don't believe this is only cultural

Different races of people have different eyes different noses different skulls they also have difference in organs ,brain is an organ, what are you suggesting me is that although races changes things in their bodies the brain stayed the same and it does not sound to me very scientifically right.

Evolution could explain difference in intelligence of races .I believe in evolution it is clear to me that we evolved from some apes long ago,if you reject evolution then I don't know what I can say to you.
I don't know if a God really exist I hope and I wish He exists I really do,but I have to be realistic also, the chances of a super power God that created us are very low pretty low guys,and that is what I choose to believe I would call myself an agnostic ,what am saying is that this is might be your only life to live no after life no paradise live it to the fullest and be realistic

Apes and humans branched from a creature. Humans did not branch out of apes. Perci has a valid point.

neo-x wrote:Apes and humans branched from a creature. Humans did not branch out of apes. Perci has a valid point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape

Car wrote:

neo-x wrote:Apes and humans branched from a creature. Humans did not branch out of apes. Perci has a valid point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape

Your link proves what Neo and Perci said, all great apes share a common ancestor with humans.

We didn't come from apes, we just share a common ancestor.
Hominids branched off in one direction and the great apes branched in another from that common ancestor (which was not a great ape).

Car wrote: Different races of people have different eyes different noses different skulls they also have difference in organs ,brain is an organ, what are you suggesting me is that although races changes things in their bodies the brain stayed the same and it does not sound to me very scientifically right.

Not at all. What I am suggesting to you is that race is more complicated - vastly more complicated - than skin colour. What I am suggesting to you is that your picture of a group of sprinters is no more proof of the thesis that black people are incredible runners than this picture is proof that white people are incredible shipwrights:



What I am suggesting to you is that, because you are a racist, you are unable to see race and genetics in terms other than skin colour, which is ludicrously simplistic. You're treating that group of sprinters as a homogeneous group who are representative of all peoples with black skin, and you don't seem to have considered any other factors. You're acting like there's an enormous elephant in the room, and that there's a conspiracy of silence amongst educated people that means they never say that "blacks are great runners" or "blacks are stupid". There's no conspiracy; educated people don't make those statements because they're not true in any meaningful sense. There's a vast and robust body of research looking at the genetic influence on physical and mental attributes, but once you're down at the genetic level then skin colour is about as useful a method for grouping people together as toe length or eyebrow shape.

So do genes have an influence on intelligence? Undoubtedly, though the extent of their influence is up for debate and the balance of evidence seems suggest that they are negligible compared with other factors. Does "race" as determined by skin colour predict intelligence* once other influences are properly controlled for? The evidence seems to suggest not. If you have firm evidence that black people are more stupid when all other factors are controlled for, then let's see it.

[*]Or, more accurately, surrogate measures of intelligence.

I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

RickD wrote:I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

Rick please don't let me lose respect for you, I seriously hope your joking because this is nothing but a huge straw man.

This kind of argumentation is used by the crazy Y.E.Cers against O.E.Cers, obviously there are exceptions on this board, not everybody is like that, please don't become one of them.

RickD wrote:I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

Racism isn't a belief that different races share different traits. It's treating people as somehow second-class because of those traits, or pre-judging individuals based on the general traits of their race rather than their individual traits. Indiscriminate discrimination.

Leaving aside your subjective ideas about what constitutes evolutionary progress (I'm not quite sure what it would mean for one race or species to be "less evolved" than another in any kind of objective sense), your assertion that a belief in evolution necessarily entails racism suggests that you think it is acceptable to use someone's intelligence as a basis for the way that you treat them. Even if someone had a valid belief that members of a certain race were, on average, less intelligent than members of another, why on earth would that necessarily mean viewing every single member of that race as inferior?

RickD wrote:I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

I'm baffled...how did which I wrote, means this?

Race is a human terminology, but its not genetically correct. Genes don't have races there is no such thing as a black skin gene any more than there is a white skin gene. As of 1998, five human pigmentation genes had been identified. Their symbols and genome loci are: "TYR" at 11q14-21, "TYRP1" at 9p23, "TYRP2" at 13q31-32, "P" at 15q11.2-12, and "MC1R" at 16q24.3 (Sturm, Box, and Ramsay 1998).

You are from a european race, I am from an indian race, does that mean we are superior/inferior to each other? Indians can play in the fields in summer in 45+ degrees centigrade, most white people can't cross 30-35 degrees without fainting. This difference has nothing to do with race or genes, it has to do with our environment and natural selection on where we live and what we eat and what we do.

Racism is when you start treating people differently because of their differences. So there is a group of people whose color is black, then there is one which is brown then a white or albino but evolution sees genes, not races which is how we differentiate.

And further, evolution science again doesn't group humans with respect to skin color, it categorizes with respect to DNA and genes.

Also adding darwinian to the word evolution does not actually mean anything. Darwin was wrong about many things. Today we know plenty much.

Finally what exactly is here that you think is against faith, I mean where does racism came in from?

To humor the strawman statement, if european people are poor sprinters even then it would not be racism until they are discriminated against, like barred from competition because they cannot outperform african people. Its a trait that has resulted from many different factors, all contributing together.

To say that african people are excellent sprinters compared to the european people is not racism. But saying that white people should not be allowed to run or are second grade humans, is racism. Racism is when someone is denied his human dignity and rights.

A person living on the north pole has evolved to live in harsh weather we can't live, atleast not as much likely as he does, that does not mean he has a superiorrace.

Further, "blacks are less intelligent than whites", is a stupid statement to begin with. There is no standard measure to confirm this. Its the same as christians are less intelligent than atheists.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

RickD wrote:I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

Rick please don't let me lose respect for you, I seriously hope your joking because this is nothing but a huge straw man.

This kind of argumentation that is used by the crazy Y.E.Cers against O.E.Cers, obviously there are exceptions on this board, not everybody is like that, please don't become one of them.

Daniel,
Take this to its logical conclusion, and try to look at it objectively. If certain ethnic groups, or races, whatever you want to call them, are considered "less evolved", such as black Africans and aboriginal Australians, then tell me logically how that doesn't lead to racism. Stick to my point. Focus. White American slave owners used this same rationale to justify the enslavement of black Africans. You know the old "right to life, liberty, etc. for all men" didn't apply to slaves because they weren't considered "men". They were less than human in the eyes of many slave owners/traders. I'm not saying all those slave owners used Darwinian evolution for their racism, but maybe they did(it was written in 1859 I believe).

Daniel,
Tell me how Darwinian evolution taken to its logical conclusion, DOES NOT promote racism. Instead of being emotional and losing respect for me, show me where I'm wrong.
Surely you understand how native Australians have been treated as less than human, don't you?

Think about it.

PerciFlage wrote:

RickD wrote:I can't see how belief in Darwinian evolution doesn't lead to racism. If certain "races"(ie blacks) haven't evolved as far as other races(ie whites), then blacks are less intelligent. You guys promoting Darwinian evolution here (Daniel, Neo) don't see a problem between this and your faith?

Racism isn't a belief that different races share different traits. It's treating people as somehow second-class because of those traits, or pre-judging individuals based on the general traits of their race rather than their individual traits. Indiscriminate discrimination.

Leaving aside your subjective ideas about what constitutes evolutionary progress (I'm not quite sure what it would mean for one race or species to be "less evolved" than another in any kind of objective sense), your assertion that a belief in evolution necessarily entails racism suggests that you think it is acceptable to use someone's intelligence as a basis for the way that you treat them. Even if someone had a valid belief that members of a certain race were, on average, less intelligent than members of another, why on earth would that necessarily mean viewing every single member of that race as inferior?

Perci,

I specified "Darwinian" evolution. The type of evolution put forth by Charles Darwin. I'm not talking about TE or evolution in general. I'm not talking about evolution defined as "change over time" as in people adapting to their environment. I'm talking about evolution where humans evolved from some distant non-human ancestor. The kind of evolution where certain people (black Africans, native Australians) are less evolved.