Evidence for God from Science

PaulSacramento wrote:

PerciFlage wrote:I think you'd have to be pretty nutty to believe salvation was definitely possible and reject it.

The point is that people that reject the offer of salvation do NOT believe they require salvation.

And this is a very sane way of seeing it, so lets play it out!

In an infinite number of lives in this mind of mine, the concept of salvation is completely insane; this is precisely how my mind was constructed and there is no way around it.

Now, you might think I am insane for not being able to accept this concept, and that's how your mind was constructed.

Logic prevails, one of us is actually insane, an insanity that they don't really have any choice in!

This is where the distinction comes into play for me....

You believe I am to be condemned and punished by God for my insanity, and I simply believe you are punishing yourself; which further supports why I believe that you are the insane one..... This is not a choice, for me, accepting such a model is an impossibility.... If God wants to punish me for that, well!

Revolutionary wrote:You believe I am to be condemned and punished by God for my insanity

This is so far from Christian beliefs (or at least my belief), God does not punish you or condemn you, you do this to yourself. God just accepts your decision that you do not want him and gives you what you want, that is to be separated from him which is to be separated from all that is good.

This is not a choice, for me, accepting such a model is an impossibility

And I used to think the same thing 5 years ago and now look where I am, this doesn't wash with me, everything is a choice and your just deluding yourself because of pride.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:You believe I am to be condemned and punished by God for my insanity

This is so far from Christian beliefs (or at least my belief), God does not punish you or condemn you, you do this to yourself. God just accepts your decision that you do not want him and gives you what you want, that is to be separated from him which is to be separated from all that is good.

This is not a choice, for me, accepting such a model is an impossibility

And I used to think the same thing 5 years ago and now look where I am, this doesn't wash with me, everything is a choice and your just deluding yourself because of pride.

You believe I am to be condemned and punished by God for my insanity[/quote]
This is so far from Christian beliefs (or at least my belief), God does not punish you or condemn you, you do this to yourself. God just accepts your decision that you do not want him and gives you what you want, that is to be separated from him which is to be separated from all that is good.

I think if you believe in God but reject him you are insane and cannot make
such a decision anymore than under the Anglo-American legal system
you can be judged insane but be legally entitled to choose to be executed.

Revolutionary wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:I want you to imagine an expression of humanity that through such a realization, was capable of demonstrated extreme abundance where minds would no longer be focused upon possessions or quantity, but instead would gravitate towards extreme quality.

B. W. wrote: Would involve theft....

In order to achieve your quote:
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How exactly does a demonstration of extreme abundance involve theft?
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, If you exist in extreme abundance there is no want over another and there is no reason to steal.

The monetary assessment of worth which creates the highly imbalanced social stratification of class keeps us from realizing such an expression.

But I'd like for you to explain how theft is involved, and then I will elaborate further.

Been doing some other things for the past few days - so I'll respond... sorry for the delay

In order to arrive there involves education that would justify taking from those that have and giving it those who do not have. In other words, this sets up a legal precedent for theft. During the process, you would use greed and envy as social engineering tools to pit people against each with a focus on attaining another's possession as an achievement goal in order to someday arrive in a common core state of mind where minds would no longer be focused upon possessions or quantity, but instead would gravitate towards extreme quality.

That quality - that robin-hood mentally - becomes the quality that gravitates one toward. however, in truth, it cannot be maintained. How so - because first off, as you admit that you processes yourself as the ultimate expression of quality of human goodness, so, if another wants that procession what would you do? Would it involve, Looking at the quality they'll give you in exchange? Would not that then be based upon quantity of who you are? After all, what would they want with your body - torture it - exploit - dictate how you must live and think?

All that is robbery of what you possess... yourself...

You cannot be free, nor ever find quality thru robbery...

Only through Jesus Christ, surrendering to him - faith to do that - can you actually find the quality you seek midst a warped twisted world that denies God and hates good and seeks to twist any goodness to one's own personal advantage.

Then someday - you will die and what then - what good is your brand of quality then?
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ultimate777 wrote:Does a person have to be insane to willingly reject salvation?
Do insane people have free will?
Will God hold insane people responsible to what their insanity drives them to?
Or is it impossible for insanity to drive people to do anything they are not responsible for?
Can people actually reject salvation if they are not clear about the consequences of their actions?

When a man possessed of evil spirits was spoken to by Jesus, he responded:
"saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not".
The real Jesus set him free of his insanity so that he was "in his right mind".

Few people know what true salvation is, they reject "churchianity" because they have seen it doesn't work.

When presented with original salvation as received by the disciples in Acts 2, with modern day evidence, most "intelligent" people turn and walk away ... they have not yet seen their need for salvation, they are afraid of the paradigm shift it would mean in their lives. They are "comfortable" and it will take a reality check, stick or carrot, or both to shake their foundations.

Revolutionary wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

PerciFlage wrote:I think you'd have to be pretty nutty to believe salvation was definitely possible and reject it.

The point is that people that reject the offer of salvation do NOT believe they require salvation.

And this is a very sane way of seeing it, so lets play it out!

In an infinite number of lives in this mind of mine, the concept of salvation is completely insane; this is precisely how my mind was constructed and there is no way around it.

Now, you might think I am insane for not being able to accept this concept, and that's how your mind was constructed.

Logic prevails, one of us is actually insane, an insanity that they don't really have any choice in!

This is where the distinction comes into play for me....

You believe I am to be condemned and punished by God for my insanity, and I simply believe you are punishing yourself; which further supports why I believe that you are the insane one..... This is not a choice, for me, accepting such a model is an impossibility.... If God wants to punish me for that, well!

Who called you insane? or suggested that you are anyone that doesn't believe in salvation is insane?