"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
The problem is that the procedure itself is unsafe. Clean hands, and sterile equipment is safe. The human mouth vigorously sucking a baby's penis with an open and bleeding cut, is not safe. So, therefore, the procedure is not safe.Jac wrote:
To the OP, I don't see the ethical problem with the procedure itself. I do see an ethical problem with not taking all necessary health precautions, but I would say the same thing about a surgeon not washing his hands,
In a strongly worded statement, Dr. Thomas Farley said that direct oral-genital suction, known as metzitzah b’peh, should not be performed during Jewish ritual circumcision. He said that several hospitals, including those serving the haredi Orthodox Jewish community, have agreed to distribute a brochure that describes the risk of contracting the herpes virus from the practice.
These rabbis certainly know what they're doing is not safe, yet they continue. That is unethical. The baby's health is not their primary concern.“There is no safe way to perform oral suction on any open wound in a newborn,” Farley said. “Parents considering ritual Jewish circumcision need to know that circumcision should only be performed under sterile conditions, like any other procedures that create open cuts, whether by mohelim or medical professionals.”
RickD wrote:Ok,
Here's evidence that shows this practice is unethical. First, I'm assuming, for the sake of the argument here, that there are no sexual overtones to this practice. The practice is not safe. There is an unnecessary risk to the health of the baby. There is no reason, other than man-made religious tradition, that this practice should be promoted. Here's a link that shows the N.Y. health chief saying that it is unhealthy.
http://www.jta.org/2012/06/07/news-opin ... -bpeh-rite
From the link:In a strongly worded statement, Dr. Thomas Farley said that direct oral-genital suction, known as metzitzah b’peh, should not be performed during Jewish ritual circumcision. He said that several hospitals, including those serving the haredi Orthodox Jewish community, have agreed to distribute a brochure that describes the risk of contracting the herpes virus from the practice.
These rabbis certainly know what they're doing is not safe, yet they continue. That is unethical. The baby's health is not their primary concern.“There is no safe way to perform oral suction on any open wound in a newborn,” Farley said. “Parents considering ritual Jewish circumcision need to know that circumcision should only be performed under sterile conditions, like any other procedures that create open cuts, whether by mohelim or medical professionals.”
So, if someone has no problem with a man placing his mouth over a baby's penis, and sucking vigorously, then you still can't ignore the health issue.
And while I haven't studied this religious practice in any detail, I would be surprised if there weren't any sexual overtones in this ritual.
That underlined statement is a red flag and a very accurate indicator of some sort of pedophile influence within that segment of Kabbalah to make a statement like that: The mekubalim write that it sweetens all bad judgments that may be coming to a person.In Kabbalah, the concept of metzitzah b’peh plays a very important and significant role. In the Tikunei Zohar it states that the strong correspondence between the actual bris milah and the metzitzah b’peh which follows is rooted in the very gematriya of the word milah, which is 85 or פה-peh-the mouth. Rav Chaim Vital writes that the gematriya of Hashem’s name, אלו-הים, is 86, and he expounds deeply on the correlation and the significance of that number. The mekubalim write that it sweetens all bad judgments that may be coming to a person.
Article Link Here
According to at least this link, some previously uncircumcised adults DO go through this as well:Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Just a thought...
...who does the suction when an adult convert to Judaism is circumcised?
FL
Starting to shine a little light on this isn't it?Regarding adult Brit for conversion where the man is not previously cirucumcised at least according to some people they do. Rav Mordechai Eliyahu writes such in his sefer on Milah Ozer Eliyahu 264:4. Rav Shlomo Shochet also writes that it is necessary in his sefer Milah Shleimah, 4:29(also see the Teshuvot he brings in chapter 12 and 13). His text is the required course work for certification by the Rabbinate.
RickD wrote:And FL, before you get any cockamamie ideas, no, it wouldn't be a great place for you to meet your next male lover.
Somehow I figured you would be the one to know that.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:RickD wrote:And FL, before you get any cockamamie ideas, no, it wouldn't be a great place for you to meet your next male lover.
''Cockamamie''...is that a play on words? Did you know that Hobart is the San Francisco of Australia?
FL
I just noticed this FL. You did know that "bizarre" is a synonym for "queer", right?Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:From what I understand, this ritual has no sexual overtones. It is just bizarre.
FL
What happens when the mohel rabbi meets the pedophile priest?RickD wrote: I'm starting to think this ritual is quite queer.
RickD wrote:I knew it! I did a little research, and this proves what I suspected about you FL:Roger the Fairy