Thadeyus wrote: Another huge post to reply to. *
Takes deep breath* Here goes,
B. W. wrote:Oh the glories of nihilism! So cavalier – so proud! Thad – you captured that feeling very well and I commend you for your honesty.
Thank you.
B. W. wrote:But are you really that honest?
*
Has quite moment of introspection* Um..yes, yes I am being honest.
B. W. wrote:Never told a lie – never took anything not yours?
*
Blinks* Um...yes, told lies etc...unfortunately every one does (Not to cast aspersions) though what that has to do with my previous comment on honesty...?
Proves beyond all reasonable doubt by being dishonest about your state of honesty...
In other words, loss of credibility, by admitting to lying, how can anyone really trust a nihilist to tell the truth?
You see, the truth of the matter is that human beings are dishonest as well as honest and most often dishonest about their own nature. Lying to self to escape consequences to justify selfish actions - such as lying, theft, etc and etc...or a cavalier attitude that seeks some sort moral superiority through nihilism's honesty is spurious in its attempt to escape consequences of wrongness.
There is nothing to hold you back from deceiving or murdering or lying if all is void. All good actions, no matter how noble, are, well, pointless... in the full scheme of this illusion called life.
So how can anyone here, reading this, Thad, say for certain that you are really who you say you are since there is nothing you can hold on too except nothingness with certaincy?
For a Christian, we have God to hold us into account – you – nothingness…
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:Never said you were sick to avoid something?
Um...again, not sure about this comment...
Simple, have you ever said whatever you needed to get out of work - feign illness - or blame others to avoid consequence - stole something - maybe broken someone’s heart?
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:Your belief in nihilism and the nothingness – what does it justify, not just for you alone, but to the whole world?
? Um...what believe in nihilism? I'm quite happy (To a degree as are we all) with the world etc.
To a degree -- What does that mean? If only a degree then you are not actually happy with the world. To be partially happy with the world is not the same as being happy with the world.
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:I used to think such mindsets would usher in a new wave of peace and blissful harmony but after looking around at the world as it really is, full of folks who claim such honesty – I saw that idea is impossible. One person’s happiness is derived by taking from one by any means possible always destroyed the nice nihilistic folks who believed in illusions about the world and self.
Well..I must say I'm glad I'm nothing like this at all.
So then you are saying that you have no motives here? Then why are you here - what worth is your own existence? Have you ever considered that?
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:The evidence of history proves this true and the state of current affairs as well too. No one is 100% honest other than God. Why would God desire to have dishonest folks, who lived life in denial of his existence, who seek to exploit God’s sense of fairness/forgiveness to get their own way, to live as his neighbors in heaven?
Um...no real idea as to why god would want such things.
'
no real idea as to why god would want such things'
God keeps his word. He gave the world to humanity and placed us in charge. It would be criminal for him to steal this away as it would cause him to against his word, promises and gifts he gave humanity. It is humanity who seeks to exploit God’s sense of fairness/forgiveness to get one's own way and thus makes a muck out of life and humanity as the audacity to blame God for our own crimes as well too. Amazing…isn’t it?
Isn't that what you have just done in your comment spoken without knowledge and truth?
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:What’s to stop them from continuing their same dishonestly and smugness from ruining heaven as it did paradise?
*
Scratches head* Um, because of what such a place as heaven is supposed to be?
If you meant here what I think I am hearing you say - then this proves my point written above and what you are about to write in an attempt to blame God for all crimes. (see below)
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:God is fair and his forgiveness is toward all who surrender their own will to him through the work He did for us upon the cross of Christ Jesus. It is free and since it is free, one can accept his terms or reject them freely. In that way, God can freely see who is really honest about themselves from those that seek to exploit His goodness for their gain. In what part of this equation do you fit?
So...being free willed I am hence free? Right, so in being free and not believing in any gods...I'm not free...?
I think we need to slow go over each of these points together at a tad more length....
Begin with a tad more length - okay... so here begins...
What part don't you understand about choice and free moral agency?
If God denied these to you, then how could he really be all powerful and true to his character and nature? You can believe that there are no gods or god as you so choose. How one lives their life, here on earth, demonstrates clearly what one would do and still be like in heaven if such were allowed in their current unchanged untrustworthy state.
If such a person thinks God should just allow them in heaven, due to ignorance, how can such a person actually be trustworthy in heaven if they have proven in this mortal life how untrustworthy they really are toward God and each other - by denying the trustworthy God the right to change them in this mortal now?
You may think, God can just do so, in heaven with a simple snap of a finger change such a cad, yet, wouldn't that be morally wrong to force someone who has proven themselves desiring being untrustworthy more than trustworthy to a place, to a person, they ignore, blame, and despise? Wouldn't such a person, be attempting to game-work God’s fairness – grace, love for their own advantage? How untrustworthy is that towards a trustworthy God?
Did you not cite such a claim earlier in one of your own post?
Instead, the true God of justice would do what is necessary to present a choice to a person to change in a place where a second chance, mortal life, is actually possible. Such a second chance, mortal life, God proves how trustworthy he is and how untrustworthy we are by presenting the evidenced of life how untrustworthy we are and the need to change. In the afterlife, individuals takes what is in themselves with them into an eternal never ending state. So only in mortal life, this second chance is change possible.
A real God would then help those who see their need to change - help them change so they will not corrupt heaven and bring to fruition within them, what they were really designed to be, trustworthy. He would do so, without any violation to his own nature and character, nor any violation to any gift, calling, of promise granted to humanity, even to his own hurt.
For example, God would allow himself to be mocked, put on trial, falsely accused of wrong doing, mocked, spat upon, beaten, lied about, ridiculed, have his possessions torn from his own body, striped naked, have his hands and feet nailed to a splintery wooden cross - a crown of mocking thorns crammed upon his head, to show humanity that it is we who do these things to god and each other.
Isn't it any wonder, humanity was forsaken upon this spinning globe called earth - exchanging the life God had for the nihilism of human achievements?
God in his own love would come and die as a man in our place to wake us up to what we are like to each other and God, exposing in us what actually defines sin - exposing its ugliness in a timeless display upon some barren insignificant rock in Judea. In doing so, die the death we deserve - all to bring those that wake up and see - back into his fold, to place a little heaven on earth, so we can find our true purpose, which prepares us for the one to come so we will not ruin it with shame.
No other god or gods - or philosophical/religious system did this. They are all based upon a tit-for-tat mentality. The Judaic/Christian God did the works for us, even changes us, all freely, without any violation to himself first or to us next. For that, you seem to mock God and continue to cite him for crimes all in order to justify your escapism into nihilism.
You maybe have claimed that you once walked away from all this but maybe what you really walked away from was a corrupted vision of God from those within the church world. You can justify your inaction and docile nihilism and sit smugly proud but there will come a time when you and I will die and it is not into a bliss of nothingness we will find ourselves in. In the long run, I will be proved correct in this. Your nihilism will not.
Christ died and exposed what is in your heart and you live to continue with the nails and hammer, trial, and false testimonies of your own honesty and moral superiority of ridiculing the one and only God who desires you to simply come to your senses and return to him and uncover his real purpose for life.
That purpose is only found in his reconciling reach down to you from his bleeding nail scared hand he is now offering to you. No matter how many times you continue to slap it away with disdain, he keeps reaching for you, until that day, you take your last breath. Then the deal is done, life forever without his true life altering embrace or in that embrace. He offers a choice to you and all here, reading this, for that, many seeking to slay God, so very sad…
Thadeyus wrote:B. W. wrote:Are you really that honest with own yourself?
Again...all I can say is yes, yes I have been honest with myself. Honestly.
Really???
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