Is the Bible Homophobic?

[Silvertusk]

Silvertusk wrote:
That is what I am trying to figure out - the true context of it. Was in reaction to the promiscious going on in neighbouring cultures especially with sodomy and male prostitution or was it just an outright ban on being gay. I will check out that link - thank you.

Scripture only condemns homosexual actions. If a heterosexual man has sexual relations with another man, it's still wrong, because the act is sinful. So in other words, it doesn't matter if a sexual act with someone of the same sex is committed by a heterosexual person, or a homosexual person. It's the act that's a sin.

Or, "being gay" is not a sin. It's the sexual act with someone of the same sex, that's the sin.

I like what WLC says on the subject:http://www.reasonablefaith.org/a-christ ... osexuality

Craig is brilliant as usual - Great article.

[PaulSacramento]

The bible treats homosexuality as wrong and a sin for a few reasons.
One of them is that the neighbouring nations may have practiced it/condoned it and that Israel was to be "set apart" from them in ALL things, including sexual behaviour.
Homosexuality is NOT in the best interest of the human species ( for obvious reasons) much less for a small demographic as was the case of Israel.
The NT continues the condemnation of homosexual behaviour basically on the same grounds, that it is not in the best interest of the race and that it MAY/CAN lead to following incorrect teachings of that time.
The bible was not homophobic in the way we see homophobia NOW, though it was certainly extreme in how homosexuals that KNEW what they did was wrong and continued to do it, we dealt with.
It is always important to look at very emotional and passionate issues with a more "detached" view if you want "facts" rather than "propaganda".

[Kurieuo]

Bit of a controversial question but there is going to be a "Grill a Christian" discussion at the school I teach which I am on the panel for. I have my own views on this question - but I would appreciated some more learned responses for the inevitable asking of this question.

Thank you in advance.

God Bless.

Silvertusk.

In Christ, God doesn't see our sin, but rather our hearts. The Bible presents a common story of fallen humanity, ALL who turn away, no matter the colour of their sin but are reunited to God through Christ.

Scripture, even if I disagree with certain interpretations, can only be read subjectively (since we cannot stand outside of ourselves). The view that homosexuality is considered sinful is one interpretation, and it is my view of Scripture and I believe a correct view. I also do not believe this is homophobic, but simply a matter of sin.

Yet, is it worth placing a stumbling block in the path of someone who cannot accept this? Those to who you will speak are likely not even babes in Christ, but non-Christian.

It is important to speak to your audience. Christ Himself remained silent rather than give ammo to those who would abuse it, especially during his last moments unto crucifixion.

What I'd consider is offering up that there are Christians who identify both as homosexuals, even a practicing homosexuals, who also value the Bible as God's Word. Does the school wish to exclude these students and make them feel even more isolated?

Given your school is secular and not Christian, I would not burden them with Christian matters of scriptural interpretation. Rather, I'd be more tactful and offer resources from Christians who are gay. Offer their stories. Offer their perspectives on the Bible. After all, our sin isn't the crux of Christianity but rather God's grace.

Above all, be true to yourself and conscience. Some might feel uncomfortable with this approach. But, I see nothing wrong with pointing out there exist diverse opinions on the matter and to support this fact, offering up links like: http://www.gaychristian.net/faq.php which have Christians who say they virtue the Bible and yet are homosexual. I'm sure there are many Christian gay sites and boards where such Christians receive support. How this is possible if the Bible is homophobic?

Even turn the tables and put it more pointedly to them: If a student considers them self to be both "gay" and "Christian", then does the school seriously want to make such people feel excluded even more in society by denying their dual identity?

[1over137]

Welcome back, neo

[Silvertusk]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

[Ivellious]

Just a few things that came to mind when I read the questions. If I'm unclear, just ask...I'm rather tired as I write these.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?

No. Our current scientific knowledge might not support certain interpretations of the Bible, but the Bible is virtually impossible to "disprove."

The historical events described by the Bible are impossible to verify or disprove through scientific methods. Other archaeological or historical documents could support the truth of some of these events (and in many cases, they have), but many are such isolated and short-term events that there is no way we could find any real scientific evidence either way. Take the commonly cited stories of Jesus feeding the multitude. There is no way we could find real evidence to support or deny this miracle actually happening. So, scientifically, there cannot be a real opinion in this case.

As for evolution specifically, our knowledge around evolution and the history of the earth very strongly opposes any young-Earth interpretation of the Bible, but obviously cannot "disprove" a belief that is immune to being disproved.

3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?

I'm no biblical scholar, but the take I've typically seen here is that modern day Christians don't have to adhere to these laws because the New Testament effectively replaces the old law with the new word of Jesus (unless I'm mistaken, which could happen). I have no idea how one could defend some of the hideous things mandated by the OT by modern standards, unless you simply say it was ok because "God said so." Obviously I cannot say I agree with that logic, but I've never heard it defended any other way personally.

5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?

This seems like an odd question...I mean, sure, Jesus's human body died, but I'm pretty sure any Christian viewpoint has to accept the caveat that Jesus's immortal God-self did not actually die when he was crucified. Besides, God can do whatever he wants, right? If God wanted to physically die and be spiritually reborn the next day, why couldn't he?

6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

As a non-christian, this is indeed a question I ask myself when I look at Christianity. I know that in the Christian sense, no person is actually "good" by definition and so the murderer is technically just as much a sinner as all of us when it comes to Heaven admission standards. But it's easy to see why a non-Christian would be upset by the thought of Hitler being able to get into heaven if he repented and your average, everyday non-mass-murderer is bound for hell if he just believes the wrong thing. Again, from a Christian viewpoint it makes sense, but it remains a heavy obstacle for many people not already bought into that worldview.

[PaulSacramento]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

No science doesn't disprove anything in the bible OTHER than where the bible writers MAY make a concrete (scientific) comment on nature.
The bible is not homophobic and the bible disapproves of homosexual ACTIVITY because it is NOT in the best interest to humanity.
Laws of deterrent are just that (just like our laws that approve capital punishment) and you need to read Deutronomy and understand to WHO and WHY those laws were given.
BTW, deutronomy does NOT state that they were stone a rape VICTIM:

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.

Jesus gave up his divinity and became human and it was his human body that died, that is basic Christianity 101.

I don't think you understand what repentance means and why someone that repents TRUTHFULLY and ALL that goes with repenting, is forgiven.
As for good people who don't repent, if they are good what do they have to repent for?

The NT is clear that those that do good will be judged based on that and not on the fact that they didn't believe in Christ (unless they believed and then rejected Christ).

[Kurieuo]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

I really don't understand this. What about "Grill a Muslim" week? Or "Grill an Atheist" week?

Sounds like the person running it has a big peeve and is picking on Christianity. So I'd try pull the rug out by calling it as I see it, rather than play such stupid games.

[Silvertusk]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

No science doesn't disprove anything in the bible OTHER than where the bible writers MAY make a concrete (scientific) comment on nature.
The bible is not homophobic and the bible disapproves of homosexual ACTIVITY because it is NOT in the best interest to humanity.
Laws of deterrent are just that (just like our laws that approve capital punishment) and you need to read Deutronomy and understand to WHO and WHY those laws were given.
BTW, deutronomy does NOT state that they were stone a rape VICTIM:

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.

Jesus gave up his divinity and became human and it was his human body that died, that is basic Christianity 101.

I don't think you understand what repentance means and why someone that repents TRUTHFULLY and ALL that goes with repenting, is forgiven.
As for good people who don't repent, if they are good what do they have to repent for?

The NT is clear that those that do good will be judged based on that and not on the fact that they didn't believe in Christ (unless they believed and then rejected Christ).

Disclaimer - I do know the answers to most of these questions - just put them out there to catch anything that I might have missed - Thank you for your input.

[Silvertusk]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

I really don't understand this. What about "Grill a Muslim" week? Or "Grill an Atheist" week?

Sounds like the person running it has a big peeve and is picking on Christianity. So I'd try pull the rug out by calling it as I see it, rather than play such stupid games.

It is Christians running it. It is giving people a chance to ask the big questions so that we can hopefully clear up any misconceptions.

[RickD]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

Silvertusk,

First, I think this is a great opportunity for you to share the gospel.

Second, whoever came up with #3, needs to go back and reread Deuteronomy 22. It doesn't mention stoning rape victims.

Next,
Repent in this context, means to change one's mind. So, if a murderer "repents", or changes his mind about who Christ is and what He has done for salvation, and then trusts Christ for salvation, then that murderer is assured of heaven.
See this thread, especially jlay's post at the top, explaining the biblical meaning of repent.

And I think the bible is clear that no one is good.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.


You can then explain to them that trusting in Christ for salvation, is how one gets to heaven. Like I said, it's a great opportunity to share the gospel.

[Kurieuo]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

I really don't understand this. What about "Grill a Muslim" week? Or "Grill an Atheist" week?

Sounds like the person running it has a big peeve and is picking on Christianity. So I'd try pull the rug out by calling it as I see it, rather than play such stupid games.

It is Christians running it. It is giving people a chance to ask the big questions so that we can hopefully clear up any misconceptions.

Ahh, k. So it is a safe Christian setting then?

Sounds more like these questions should be apart of some Christian group, or church setting, or even as part of a religion class.

I'd think a lot of these questions are irrelevant in a school education setting? But, that's just me I suppose.

[Kurieuo]

Ok - here are the questions that are going to come up on our "Grill a Christian" session this week. Again I have some answers, but would appreciated any learned response to supplement them.

1. Does science and the theory of evolution disprove the Bible?
2. Is the Bible/Christianity homophobic and why does the Bible disapprove of homosexuality?
3. Old Testament law – don’t they promote evil (stoning of rape victims, Deut 22) and aren’t Christians hypocritical in not adhering to them today?
4. How can an all loving God allow suffering?
5. If Jesus was really God, why did he die?
6. How is it fair that if a murderer repents he will go to Heaven, a ‘good’ person who doesn’t repent will go to Hell?

Thank you very much in advance.

I really don't understand this. What about "Grill a Muslim" week? Or "Grill an Atheist" week?

Sounds like the person running it has a big peeve and is picking on Christianity. So I'd try pull the rug out by calling it as I see it, rather than play such stupid games.

It is Christians running it. It is giving people a chance to ask the big questions so that we can hopefully clear up any misconceptions.

Ahh, k. So it is a safe Christian setting then?

Sounds more like these questions should be apart of some Christian group, or church setting, or even as part of a religion class.

I'd think a lot of these questions are irrelevant in a school education setting? But, that's just me I suppose.

Just thinking, these questions would be great to raise to students in a religion class. Get them interested in Christian thinking.

[Silvertusk]

Well with any luck (well Divine intervention really) it will prompt genuine seekers. However the vibe I am getting at moment is that a lot of the students here are anti-Christian. In fact even one Muslim student remarked on how everyone here seems to be so anti-christian and he was sticking up for Christianity, So blessings to him. I think we are going to have a lot of militant atheists attending this one to just spout of their venom and show how clever they are - and they might drown out the genuine seekers/

Think I am going to need some prayers on this one. It is on Wednesday 13pm-14.10pm British time.

God Bless

SIlvertusk.

[Kurieuo]

Well with any luck (well Divine intervention really) it will prompt genuine seekers. However the vibe I am getting at moment is that a lot of the students here are anti-Christian. In fact even one Muslim student remarked on how everyone here seems to be so anti-christian and he was sticking up for Christianity, So blessings to him. I think we are going to have a lot of militant atheists attending this one to just spout of their venom and show how clever they are - and they might drown out the genuine seekers/

Think I am going to need some prayers on this one. It is on Wednesday 13pm-14.10pm British time.

God Bless

SIlvertusk.

I feel sorry for you living in the UK.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always have a depressive picture of that place as having the most liberally blinded people who think themselves wise.

You did give us CS Lewis though, and kind of Tolkien. But that's a past affair.

You're in my prayers! Pray you can make a difference to the attitudes there!