Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:

RickD wrote:The zombie apocalypse is imminent...

You really think that nothing is all that different about the world today, that the 2008 collapse is behind us, and wasn't just a precursor to something much bigger, you really think the world is just going to limp on as per usual.

No, I really think the zombie apocalypse is imminent. Don't you watch The Walking Dead?

Suppose all of those things really are evidence that society that we know it is going to have a complete collapse, and that humanity is going to enter another dark age, where all of human innovation has to start over from scratch, society has to completely build itself back up following a 300 year period of hardship, war, and famine.

That still would not be evidence that the second coming of Christ is just around the corner. The roman empire was the dominant world power for about 600 years after the events in the new testament. Rome fell, western society crumbled, and it was the start of the dark ages, a long period of stagnation and hardship. That wasn't a precusor to the apocalypse, humanity continued on and 1000 years later after the renaissance, here we are.

All of this has been going on for a long time. How do you know with such certainty that this is the end times. First century Christians were thinking the same and so have been people in countless centuries.

Seraph wrote:Suppose all of those things really are evidence that society that we know it is going to have a complete collapse, and that humanity is going to enter another dark age, where all of human innovation has to start over from scratch, society has to completely build itself back up following a 300 year period of hardship, war, and famine.

That still would not be evidence that the second coming of Christ is just around the corner. The roman empire was the dominant world power for about 600 years after the events in the new testament. Rome fell, western society crumbled, and it was the start of the dark ages, a long period of stagnation and hardship. That wasn't a precusor to the apocalypse, humanity continued on and 1000 years later after the renaissance, here we are.

Ah but we have the Bible.

We have Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
We have Daniels prophecies.
We have Revelations.

When we see the Bible being fulfilled then we will know. So if all these events lead into a period that resembles what we read in the Bible then we will know (mark of the beast, etc.).
And given modern technology and weaponry we have today whatever happens it will be a huge event, far bigger than anything ever experienced in human history. A financial event alone will be far worse than anything mankind has ever known and will plunge the entire world into chaos.

I think this too self-congratulatory but that's just me thinking out loud. I have been hearing fir the last 25 years that its coming soon, but doesn't happen.

Sorry, but I don't see how a perfectly explained financial crisis has anything to do with the events described in Daniel's visions or Revelations. When the sun turns black, the moon turns to blood, and Abaddon rises from the abyss opened by a star/meteor falling, I'll start to be convinced that the events of Revelations might be unfolding before us.

Seraph wrote:Sorry, but I don't see how a perfectly explained financial crisis has anything to do with the events described in Daniel's visions or Revelations. When the sun turns black, the moon turns to blood, and Abaddon rises from the abyss opened by a star/meteor falling, I'll start to be convinced that the events of Revelations might be unfolding before us.

The financial crisis is a deliberate one, it has been planned that way.
I never said that the financial crisis has anything to do with Revelations or Daniels visions did I; but these are all events that will lead up to the events in the Bible coming to pass.

And if it comes to pass that you have to choose between getting a mark in your forehead or hand or face starvation, will you take the mark because there is no evidence this is really the end times, and could just be yet another tumultuous period in human history.

Oh my!

Stu wrote: but these are all events that will lead up to the events in the Bible coming to pass.

Says who? Planned or not, where does the Bible imply that the financial crisis of 2008 will lead to the events in Revelations? Like neo-x said, it's such an American-centric view to think that something possibly resulting in the end of America equals the end of days. I would be so bold as to say that God probably doesn't care about the US as a national entity much more than he cared about the roman, english, spanish, or portuguese empires.

Stu wrote: And if it comes to pass that you have to choose between getting a mark in your forehead or hand or face starvation, will you take the mark because there is no evidence this is really the end times, and could just be yet another tumultuous period in human history.

I don't know but I'm not going to be one of those people who refuses to get a credit card because it might be the mark of the beast either. Don't you think that if the mark of the beast was being given out, something that those who accept it are made enemies of God, it would be *slightly* obvious? Do you think God would go "You supported the US government during the Obama administration, surprise! That was the mark of the beast. Now feel my wrath"? If some figure was commanding followers to accept some marking to swear their alliance in a campaign against God, no I would not take it, end times or not.

Seraph wrote:Says who? Planned or not, where does the Bible imply that the financial crisis of 2008 will lead to the events in Revelations? Like neo-x said, it's such an American-centric view to think that something possibly resulting in the end of America equals the end of days. I would be so bold as to say that God probably doesn't care about the US as a national entity much more than he cared about the roman, english, spanish, or portuguese empires.

I'm not American I'm South African.
It's not a certainty that it will even start in the US, it could very well be Japan's economy that implodes first -- however the implications remain the same; the interconnected nature of the financial world these days. You are underestimating the consequences of a financial collapse. The great depression wouldn't even come close compared to what would unfold.

A financial collapse would have global implications. Massive implications. Financial upheaval leads to unrest, leads to martial law (and the unleashing of the National Defence Authorization Act), leads to war. The consequences of a collapse are far worse than you seem to suggest.

I don't know but I'm not going to be one of those people who refuses to get a credit card because it might be the mark of the beast either. Don't you think that if the mark of the beast was being given out, something that those who accept it are made enemies of God, it would be *slightly* obvious? Do you think God would go "You supported the US government during the Obama administration, surprise! That was the mark of the beast. Now feel my wrath"? If some figure was commanding followers to accept some marking to swear their alliance in a campaign against God, no I would not take it, end times or not.

Yeah my guess is that it will be pretty obvious, I just posed the question because to me it seems like that no matter how bad things might get you might just shrug it off as an yet another "extremely bad period in human history".

If some figure was commanding followers to accept some marking to swear their alliance in a campaign against God, no I would not take it, end times or not.

Will it be as obvious as that, who knows. It could be many things including for instance something that makes us not entirely human. Say there was a massive outbreak and this "mark" would include a cure for the virus but a consequence thereof would lead to us not being entirely human, with say an alteration to our DNA, if the cure itself contained say animal DNA. Just one of many possibilities I guess.