Evidence for God from Science

Neo backtracked wrote:
Let me clarify a bit...aliens may exist they may not...

That's not clarifying, that's changing what you wrote. You said it was a fact that aliens don't exist. Now you say they may or may not exist. If you're sticking with this, then I agree.

And generally speaking, its not a faulty assertion per se. No one knows of any evidence that aliens exist. Its a fact that we don't have evidence which concludes to anything. And None of the said evidence can be confirmed. While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, there is also a rational understanding and probability. I can easily say there are aliens living at the core of the earth, and then apply to mystery here. Your own reasoning would not be able to find fault with this. See absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Or I can say that evolution is true and you can say there is no evidence for it and I can simply say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Of course it's a faulty assertion. You asserted that it's a fact that aliens don't exist. It's not a fact. Even if it's true that there's no evidence that aliens exist, it's still not a fact that they don't exist. It would just be a fact that there's no evidence of their existence.

I understand your concern here but something are quite absurd and I find it one of those things. There is a point where appealing to mystery does not help. Show me evidence that aliens exist and I will happily concede.

My concern isn't whether aliens exist. I don't know, and I really don't care. My concern is with you calling something a fact when it's clearly not a fact.

Just like nobody can declare it a fact that God doesn't exist, nobody can call it a fact that aliens don't exist.

Rick, there is reason and merit to thinking god exist... But that's simply not true for aliens.

The fact is that aliens are a figment of imagination to begin with. That is a fact. The fact is there is nothing remotely observable which might suggest that aliens exist. So yes, right now it is a fact that aliens don't exist, except in people's minds and wild imagination.

So I will make it short, there's no evidence for aliens, this is a fact. And I conclude they don't exist.

Edit :
The response to stu was with a theological context. Even if aliens do exist, as far as Christian doctrines of end time ia concerned they are irrelevant and simply do not exist within the context he said they do.

neo-x wrote:Rick, there is reason and merit to thinking god exist... But that's simply not true for aliens.

The fact is that aliens are a figment of imagination to begin with. That is a fact. The fact is there is nothing remotely observable which might suggest that aliens exist. So yes, right now it is a fact that aliens don't exist, except in people's minds and wild imagination.

So I will make it short, there's no evidence for aliens, this is a fact. And I conclude they don't exist.

Right now there's nothing observable that might suggest a planet exists 13 billion light years away. So therefore, its a fact that no planets exist 13 billion light years away.

I think my point is clear.

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:Rick, there is reason and merit to thinking god exist... But that's simply not true for aliens.

The fact is that aliens are a figment of imagination to begin with. That is a fact. The fact is there is nothing remotely observable which might suggest that aliens exist. So yes, right now it is a fact that aliens don't exist, except in people's minds and wild imagination.

So I will make it short, there's no evidence for aliens, this is a fact. And I conclude they don't exist.

Right now there's nothing observable that might suggest a planet exists 13 billion light years away. So therefore, its a fact that no planets exist 13 billion light years away.

I think my point is clear.

Wrong, it may not be observable but then the question to ask is is it reasonable? In stu's case, its not observable nor reasonable. Its unmerited, uncalled for.

Let me adress the confusion here.

Scientifically speaking, an alien could be a simple bacteria living on a meteor. That's something I think can happen, there is no evidence for this, but its reasonable to some remote degree. But intelligent rational beings, bipedal who behave and have locomotion as humans have, are simply a fantasy at this point. There is not even proper reason to think that so and so exist.

Now to top that you put it in Christian end times and that just makes it bizarre to say the least. And therefore aliens such as these, don't exist except in imagination and therefore cannot be real.

I mean I can say jfk was assassinated by an alien. Would you say to me, its a fact that didn't happen or would you give this equal weight in theory? As I said before there are limits to reasoning.

If you can call a bacteria alien, sure I am down with that.

Theres like 100 septillion stars w/ planets in the universe, it doesn't seem too crazy to me to think that intelligent life might exist on some of them. Especially to a theistic evolutionist who accepts that life can evolve on its own.

When you start bringing in ideas about aliens manipulating events in history, or even having ever been in our solar system, thats when it starts to sound crazy.

May be there is intelligent life out there but its not human. It would not be like us. The concept of aliens that we have is very human.

Neo wrote:

neo-x wrote:Rick, there is reason and merit to thinking god exist... But that's simply not true for aliens.

The fact is that aliens are a figment of imagination to begin with. That is a fact. The fact is there is nothing remotely observable which might suggest that aliens exist. So yes, right now it is a fact that aliens don't exist, except in people's minds and wild imagination.

So I will make it short, there's no evidence for aliens, this is a fact. And I conclude they don't exist.

Edit :
The response to stu was with a theological context. Even if aliens do exist, as far as Christian doctrines of end time ia concerned they are irrelevant and simply do not exist within the context he said they do.

Neo, Stu's post was about fallen angels masquerading as aliens to deceive. I don't believe Stu ever said anything about believing in aliens. So, if Stu is right, and fallen angels do masquerade as aliens, then it may have something to do with end time deception.

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:Rick, there is reason and merit to thinking god exist... But that's simply not true for aliens.

The fact is that aliens are a figment of imagination to begin with. That is a fact. The fact is there is nothing remotely observable which might suggest that aliens exist. So yes, right now it is a fact that aliens don't exist, except in people's minds and wild imagination.

So I will make it short, there's no evidence for aliens, this is a fact. And I conclude they don't exist.

Right now there's nothing observable that might suggest a planet exists 13 billion light years away. So therefore, its a fact that no planets exist 13 billion light years away.

I think my point is clear.

Wrong, it may not be observable but then the question to ask is is it reasonable? In stu's case, its not observable nor reasonable. Its unmerited, uncalled for.

Stu's point that fallen angels may masquerade as aliens to deceive us, is a valid, and reasonable discussion.

Ok, that's why I asked what was biblically that he based this on. And that's exactly my point, there is nothing which explains or warrants that fallen angels need to masquerade as aliens. Theologically it is absurd. Angels cloning themselves? And you say its a valid theological discussion? Well go ahead then.

Have fun, guys.

neo-x wrote:Ok, that's why I asked what was biblically that he based this on. And that's exactly my point, there is nothing which explains or warrants that fallen angels need to masquerade as aliens. Theologically it is absurd. Angels cloning themselves? And you say its a valid theological discussion? Well go ahead then.

Have fun, guys.

I'm no expert on the topic, so rather than clone I believe the fallen angels have the ability to take the form of what we might consider "aliens".

You're forgetting 'as in the days of Noah' - that is not theologically absurd. Can you say what took place during those times?

Neo is WRONG! Aliens exist and are here on this planet!

There are plenty of illegal aliens already residing in the USA; I read that in my newspaper this morning.

FL

neo-x wrote:Ok, that's why I asked what was biblically that he based this on. And that's exactly my point, there is nothing which explains or warrants that fallen angels need to masquerade as aliens. Theologically it is absurd. Angels cloning themselves? And you say its a valid theological discussion? Well go ahead then.

Have fun, guys.

Well, I certainly don't know about cloning. That seems pretty far-fetched.

But what about all the people who claim to have been personally visited by aliens. Sure, a certain percent may be crazy. But they must have experienced something. I think demons is as good an explanation as any. Is it just a coincidence that those who experience these "aliens", aren't professing Christians? People open themselves up to demonic oppression/possession.

One thing I would bet on, is that they're not being visited by sentient life forms from another galaxy.

-------edit

I don't think it's "theologically absurd" for demons to masquerade as anything that might deceive people. They masquerade as dead relatives in order to deceive. Why wouldn't they masquerade as anything that may draw people away from Christ. I would say theologically speaking, it fits with what we know about satan and demons from scripture. They deceive and draw people away from Christ.

Well here are a couple sources for those interested.

First is an interview with Tom Horn on the Hagmann & Hagmann Report (Joe and Doug Hagmann host this show), also featuring Steve Quayle.
You can download the show or listen to it at this link here Tom Horn & Steve Quayle on the Hagmann & Hagmann Report

Here's another more recent interview featuring Jim Garrow, a recently retired long time CIA agent. The alien issue starts at about the 29:50 mark.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z78FLx7C4Kc[/youtube]


Here's another show that deals with two topics - the prophecy of the final pope (note that Tom Horn and Chris Putnam accurately predicted the resignation of Pope Ratzinger, this in light of the fact that no Pope has resigned in hundreds of years) and the alien question. You can download this show as well. This show has a really long intro, so fast forward to about the 3:00 minute mark.
Find the show here Exo-Vaticana - Tom Horn and Cris Putnam - Petrus Romanus - The Last Pope

I don't believe that Stu was stating that there are aliens, rather that they are fallen angels.
In respect to this forum I understand that it is a scientific based site, that obviously relies strongly upon that which can be proven, but it must be kept in mind that at the fundamental core of our belief in Jesus and The Almighty it is the spiritual that is at the forefront and central to a relationship with Our Father, it governs everything, and it is the Holy Spirit that reveals and brings truth. When Moses was lead by God he did not ask for proof, when Noah was ridiculed and built the ark, he was following God's plan and did not ask for proof. When Jesus walked on this earth, it was not even proof through his miracles that lead people to him, it was the Holy Spirit that dwelt within them that led to their eye's being opened and seeing Jesus for who he truly is.
I am not saying that becasue one person makes a statement it should be taken as gospel, but in the search for proof, first and foremost it is the Almighty's wisdom we should seek. We can search a thousand websites and read a hundred books, but if you have not asked the Holy Spirit to guide and reveal the truth it is all in vain.
There will be an alien deception, I am not going to beat around the bush and say maybe, as it is truth and in time will be revealed. I do not base this upon anything that I have read but rather what The Holy Spirit has shown me, directly to my spirit and in dreams that I have had since I was a small child.
We live in a time when claims of all sorts are being made left, right and center. Lucifer has set up these end days to have layer upon layer of deceipt, so that even the very elect might be decieved if that were possible. The only way for that to not be possible is to seek the Holy Spirit, if you roll your eyes and scoff before even seeking the Spirit then you fall into the danger of being the decieved.
Our Heavenly Father wants us to see the truth, not because we read it in a book and can join all the dots, but because we surrender ourselves to him and trust in him with all our heart, mind and soul. It brings a truth that surpasses any factual statement that can be over-analysed and sub-divided into pieces then glued back together by man's logic. When the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit with authority, and we embrace it and trust it, we then walk with the authority of The Almighty.
This alien agenda that swamps our TV, movies, modern culture is the work of Satan, they are not extra-terrestrial beings, they are demons and they will play a major role in the mass deception that is coming.
Be aware, the truth that is given to us by the authority of Our Father is our greatest weapon in the end days. God Bless.