"It must be meant to be!"

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:58 pm

I believe that everything does happen for a reason...God's reason. Otherwise, things would be different.

Post by **Philip** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:30 am

I believe that everything does happen for a reason...God's reason. Otherwise, things would be different.

Gotta be careful how far you take that belief. What if I had just gone up to and slapped, beat or killed a man I saw on the street, for no particular reason except that I wanted to. So, would that have happened because I desired to do so and simply caused it myself, or did it happen because God desired that? Does GOD cause sinful actions? Scripture says "No!," that sin is a willful action that springs from the heart, mind and actions of man. Do I have free will within certain parameters or not? I can either obey God or not, right? Now, I can't fly or go invisible, but I can make actions and choices that I am capable of. The very fact that God gave us free will and that we often exercise it by sinning, and that Scripture teaches God hates sin and doesn't cause it, tells me that the mantra of "all things happen for a reason" is ususally said by people who haven't really thought out the implications of that statement.

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Not necessarily that God desired it, just that it would of course, be part of His plan.

Since God knows the future, and God cannot be wrong, then I believe that what God knows will happen, must happen...even if He knew it before you were born.

What you believe to be your free will choice, is already known to God.

Post by **Philip** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:28 pm

What you believe to be your free will choice, is already known to God.

IF I can sin - and I obviously do - then my free will is no illusion, otherwise God wanted - or worse - CAUSED me to sin. But we know from Scripture that is impossible. And yes, my freely chosen actions have ALWAYS been known by God - meaning, they have FOREVER been known by Him. But will my free actions, sinful or not, impede or change God's ultimate desires for myself, others, this world our universe? Absolutely NOT! I'm guessing many of our actions are basically irrelevant, when it comes to God's plans. Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires. At times, He certainly uses sinful man's actions to further His plans (see Judas Iscariot). But God doesn't micro-manage every single action we do, otherwise we wouldn't really have freedom of will - a telling reflection of some of the attributes of God that He has given man. I don't think God is terribly concerned about what color socks I put on.

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:18 pm

I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.

That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:12 am

This ties in with the Adam as evil discussion.

Post by **1over137** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:58 am

stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...

Does God want some people end in hell?

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:06 am

1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...
Does God want some people end in hell?

Paul makes it clear that when people have made up their minds that God leaved them to it.
We can say to God, "Thy will be done" or God can say to us, "Thy will be done".
There is a lesson in that for us here too it seems.

Post by **1over137** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:19 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...
Does God want some people end in hell?
Paul makes it clear that when people have made up their minds that God leaved them to it.
We can say to God, "Thy will be done" or God can say to us, "Thy will be done".
There is a lesson in that for us here too it seems.

Ok, I will go further with my question that is intended for stuart:
Does God want poeple to make up their minds against God?

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:37 pm

1over137 wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...
Does God want some people end in hell?
Paul makes it clear that when people have made up their minds that God leaved them to it.
We can say to God, "Thy will be done" or God can say to us, "Thy will be done".
There is a lesson in that for us here too it seems.
Ok, I will go further with my question that is intended for stuart:
Does God want poeple to make up their minds against God?

Of course, God wants us in a relationship with Him, that is why He created US and that is why we are only "right" when we are in the relationship.
But God wants that to be our choice since God knows that Love can't be forced.

Post by **Philip** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:37 pm

Ok, I will go further with my question that is intended for stuart: Does God want poeple to make up their minds against God?

(1 Timothy 2): "1First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

(Ezekiel 18:23): ""Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live."

(Ezekiel 33:11): "Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?'"

(2 Peter 3:9): "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

If God said He hates sin, and rejecting Christ is a great sin, how then could God want a man to sin? Does God DESIRE rebellion against Himself?

But while God wants ALL men to come to Christ, He also gave us free will and the opportunity to either embrace Him or reject Him. So while He wants all who freely choose and embrace Jesus to be with Him forever, He does NOT want those who reject Christ to be in Heaven - their fate is punishment and separation - this is God's justice. There will be no rebels against Christ in Heaven, not one!

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:54 am

1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...
Does God want some people end in hell?

How could I know that? Besides, I don't believe hell exists.

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:01 am

stuartcr wrote:
1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:I'm sure God doesn't micro-manage, but since He knows your future actions and He cannot be wrong, then those actions are inevitable, aren't they? We have to do as He knows we will. How else can His will be done?

Certainly no action by a man will change the final outcomes (both now and future) that God so desires.
That is why I say that everything happens as God wants it to...
Does God want some people end in hell?
How could I know that? Besides, I don't believe hell exists.

Some one should have told Jesus that.

stuartcr · Post by **stuartcr** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:47 am

OK, I'm not sure what that means though.

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:50 am

stuartcr wrote:OK, I'm not sure what that means though.

Jesus believed in a hell.

Evidence for God from Science

"It must be meant to be!"

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