Bloody Bride Groom.

[Silvertusk]

The whole circumcision thing is, well, interesting to say the least.
How does the cutting the skin of the penis of a infant ( or adult male in some cases) make a person part of the convent with God?
Why would God require such a barbaric act?
Why make us with foreskin if we are not to have it?
No one had to do it before Abe, so why was it ok for them?
Etc, etc, etc...

These are all very good questions Paul. I would love to get some answers to.

[PaulSacramento]

The whole circumcision thing is, well, interesting to say the least.
How does the cutting the skin of the penis of a infant ( or adult male in some cases) make a person part of the convent with God?
Why would God require such a barbaric act?
Why make us with foreskin if we are not to have it?
No one had to do it before Abe, so why was it ok for them?
Etc, etc, etc...

These are all very good questions Paul. I would love to get some answers to.

I am sure that some well be able to answer them, you just may not agree with the answers.
As it happens when many difficult things in the bible, there may be an answer, we just may not like it.
I am sure God created Adam with a foreskin, unless of course the foreskin is a sign of the fall !!
EEEKKK !!!

On a serious note though, Paul's statement on circumcision is clear, so is the Jerusalem Council in ACTS:
Acts 15:7-10
New International Version (NIV)
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Acts 15:19-21
New International Version (NIV)
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Romans 2:25-29
New International Version (NIV)
25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God

[Gman]

Your sorry that I find Christ more appealing than the OT law?

I don't need luck when I have God on my side, but I accept the sentiment.

Christ (who is G-d) gave us the all commandments in the Tanach or what you call the OT. If you don't find them appealing there is nothing I can do to help you understand that. Or as I said.. Luck.

[Gman]

The whole circumcision thing is, well, interesting to say the least.
How does the cutting the skin of the penis of a infant ( or adult male in some cases) make a person part of the convent with God?
Why would God require such a barbaric act?
Why make us with foreskin if we are not to have it?
No one had to do it before Abe, so why was it ok for them?
Etc, etc, etc...

These are all very good questions Paul. I would love to get some answers to.

I certainly wouldn't call G-d's commandments barbaric. The scriptures don't exactly say what it is except that it is a "sign" of the covenants.

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

However in order to apply the covenants, circumcision of the heart was required first "before" circumcision of the flesh or the outward expression of the inward conversion.. This is what Paul was merely advocating in places such as Romans 2:29.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Your sorry that I find Christ more appealing than the OT law?

I don't need luck when I have God on my side, but I accept the sentiment.

Christ (who is G-d) gave us the all commandments in the Tanach or what you call the OT. If you don't find them appealing there is nothing I can do to help you understand that. Or as I said.. Luck.

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

[PaulSacramento]

Lets not get into another discussion of whether or not Hebraic law is to be followed by Christians, please ok?

[RickD]

Your sorry that I find Christ more appealing than the OT law?

I don't need luck when I have God on my side, but I accept the sentiment.

Christ (who is G-d) gave us the all commandments in the Tanach or what you call the OT. If you don't find them appealing there is nothing I can do to help you understand that. Or as I said.. Luck.

Guys,

Gman is right. I've been randomly choosing from the 613 Hebrew laws. I started with ones that I know I can follow. I chose this one first:

108.
Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence (Ex. 16:29) (CCN7). See Shabbat.

This law is quite appealing actually. The tough part is convincing my wife that I have to just sit around the house all day every Saturday. I'm going to keep at it until I get it right!

After I master sitting around the house, I'm going to build a parapet for my roof.

263.
To make a parapet for your roof (Deut. 22:8) (CCA75). See Love and Brotherhood.

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/613.htm

[Gman]

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

You don't need anything written down? Or that magically you will have all knowledge to know and understand all of G-d's commandments? I guess we can throw out verses like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 John 2:3-7 then.

[PaulSacramento]

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

You don't need anything written down? Or that magically you will have all knowledge to know and understand all of G-d's commandments? I guess we can throw out verses like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 John 2:3-7 then.

Hold on GMan, lets not start proof texting because if we do:
1 John 2:27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

[Gman]

Guys,

Gman is right. I've been randomly choosing from the 613 Hebrew laws. I started with ones that I know I can follow. I chose this one first:
108.
Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence (Ex. 16:29) (CCN7). See Shabbat.

This law is quite appealing actually. The tough part is convincing my wife that I have to just sit around the house all day every Saturday. I'm going to keep at it until I get it right!

After I master sitting around the house, I'm going to build a parapet for my roof.

263.
To make a parapet for your roof (Deut. 22:8) (CCA75). See Love and Brotherhood.

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/613.htm

I think it's a great commandment not to be traveling all the time, especially on Shabbat. I'm glad you posted this... Thank you.

[Gman]

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

You don't need anything written down? Or that magically you will have all knowledge to know and understand all of G-d's commandments? I guess we can throw out verses like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 John 2:3-7 then.

Hold on GMan, lets not start proof texting because if we do:
1 John 2:27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Again I ask, are you going to magically know and understand instruction from G-d outside the Bible? Why are you even quoting the Bible then? Why all the scripture?

[PaulSacramento]

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

You don't need anything written down? Or that magically you will have all knowledge to know and understand all of G-d's commandments? I guess we can throw out verses like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 John 2:3-7 then.

Hold on GMan, lets not start proof texting because if we do:
1 John 2:27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Again I ask, are you going to magically know and understand instruction from G-d outside the Bible? Why are you even quoting the Bible then? Why all the scripture?

You know that was NOT my point.
My point was to not use "proof texting" because it doesn't work.

As for the bible, it has and always will be one of God's many tools.
Do you believe that no one can know God EXCEPT though the bible?
How do you explain all those that have found God OUTSIDE of the bible?

[Danieltwotwenty]

G I mean no disrespect but I have God's laws written on my heart, I don't need them written down for me because once you start following the written law you fall into legalism, the holy spirit guides me and convicts me if I do wrong and that is all I require. There is nothing wrong with the law but there is something wrong with following the letter of it (which is inevitable once it is written down) rather than following the spirit of it.

You don't need anything written down? Or that magically you will have all knowledge to know and understand all of G-d's commandments? I guess we can throw out verses like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 John 2:3-7 then.

God is not bound or found in a book, I worship the living God and he lives in me. I respect the laws given in the OT and they do serve a purpose of pointing towards sin and how we should live our lives, but I live by the truth of those laws, for example the Sabbath was created for a time to rest, a time to cease creating as God ceased creating, a time to sit and marvel at the creation, a time to spend with God just knowing that he is in control, do I need to do this on a special day or is this a constant state of being for the Christian that he/she can be at at any particular time, I would say the latter. That to me is living by the spirit and not following the letter of the law, because Christ lives in my heart and has changed me from within I no longer need the law because I can recognise what God wants because I am in constant communion with him.

Not trying to start and argument with you G, just explaining my position and I am happy to discuss in a respectful manner.

Peace Brother.

[Gman]

God is not bound or found in a book, I worship the living God and he lives in me.

No one is saying that G-d is a book. But the Bible was given to us by the Holy Spirit for our direction TO G-d 2 Timothy 2:15.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Also apparently the Berean Jews were called more noble in character.. Why? The Bible tells us that they examined the scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true.

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

I respect the laws given in the OT and they do serve a purpose of pointing towards sin and how we should live our lives, but I live by the truth of those laws, for example the Sabbath was created for a time to rest, a time to cease creating as God ceased creating, a time to sit and marvel at the creation, a time to spend with God just knowing that he is in control, do I need to do this on a special day or is this a constant state of being for the Christian that he/she can be at at any particular time, I would say the latter. That to me is living by the spirit and not following the letter of the law, because Christ lives in my heart and has changed me from within I no longer need the law because I can recognise what God wants because I am in constant communion with him.

Not trying to start and argument with you G, just explaining my position and I am happy to discuss in a respectful manner.

I believe I've stated this before, if you want to worship G-d in your own way then please go ahead. Some say it's Friday, some Tuesday, some Sunday.. So just choose anything or nothing at all. I for one can't live that way anymore because I've already got enough static in my life..

[Danieltwotwenty]

I believe I've stated this before, if you want to worship G-d in your own way then please go ahead. Some say it's Friday, some Tuesday, some Sunday.. So just choose anything or nothing at all. I for one can't live that way anymore because I've already got enough static in my life..

Fair enough G, I have no issue with people wanting to follow God's laws as closely as possible, I think it is admirable.